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Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

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Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#91

Post by Nav_Panel »

mjevans wrote: post #22

Yes. For me, probably most is the highly sedentary office lifestyle. Compounding this problem, I more or less live alone and thus 'community food' (eating out) is my best access to non-frozen pre-prepared meals. I refuse to do leftovers (this is not negotiable). The main problem with eating out is the portion size. Everything is insanely large.

Depending where you're located, it's possible to find options for eating out that aren't massive. At my favorite spot in Brooklyn, I get a salad with feta and kale plus some salmon on top, and it's about the perfect amount for one meal. There's also the "hot buffet" style meals where you can take as much as you want and pay by weight; there are some good businessperson-oriented ones in NYC.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#92

Post by Matthias247 »

cheald wrote: post #61
kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

And if you add the fact that for a lot of people their intake should be more near 2000kcal and not 3000 you then already have consumed the recommended daily amount. I think 3000 is already on the high side for people of average size with average (low) physical activity.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#93

Post by cheald »

antisthenes wrote: post #81
cheald wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Sorry, but that's batshit insane. My stomach is literally not big enough to handle that much liquid/volume in a single meal. A huge sandwich, 32 oz of liquid, tons of fries, and then another cup of liquid? Somewhere about mid-way through that a normal human being should feel sick and stop eating. That's not a "small" meal by any measure.

Go to McDonald's and watch what people are eating sometime. The quantity of food they're putting away may surprise you. Pay special attention to the number of times they go to refill their drink.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#94

Post by antisthenes »

munificent wrote: post #56
mvpu wrote: post #26

Bah, why do people write such painfully long posts without an executive summary at the top?

The entire gist of the article is that nutrition cannot be executive-summarized and that it is likely the confluence of many many factors that determine how our diet affects our health.

But that's provably wrong, so the article is incorrect in its entirety then?

Here's the executive summary:

1. Do not eat more calories than you need. 2. Exercise 3 times a week (or more if you have time and enjoy it), with moderate intensity 3. Ensure that most of your meals follow a good macro nutrient profile (but if you have to cut something, do it in carbs --> fat --> protein order)

Not sure why people have such difficulty grasping those concepts and will come up with statistically irrelevant anecdotes in futile attempts to prove the main concepts wrong.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#95

Post by Aron »

kough wrote: post #54
Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

I think most sedentary people are in the 2000-2500 calorie daily range. When I formed my cached thoughts about this it was looking at a double whopper super-sized meal that would include large fry and large coke and I recall that coming out pretty close to 2000.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#96

Post by Memebook »

cheald wrote: post #55
Memebook wrote: post #53

After years reading about what is right or not for me. I just gave up and began eating what felt good to me. After awhile, I begin to notice that my body's constantly telling me what feels good or not. Sometimes good health is nothing more than a bit of awareness and experimentation.

The problem is that your body is highly adapted for survival, and it frickin' loves calories, and we have a food industry that has perfected the process of putting as many calories into as small a package as possible, with a composition that sends your brain hormones into overdrive and tells you to shove as much of it into your face as you can. Obesity is epidemic in our society because the food available to us press…

Perhaps. That's one story.

Another possible angle, we're so out of touch with our bodies, our emotions, our very selves. That we've essentially numbed ourselves to the signals that our body's constantly sending us.

Sitting children down in neat little rows for 16 years, while hammering them into preconceived form; no play, no socialization, no getting to know self, this seems to have a deleterious effect on their awareness.

Funny thing is that I subscribed to that often-repeated theory, and it may not be wrong, after all, that story does make sense. However, when I started to be mindful, I began to notice that sugar doesn't feel that great and it's kinda gross same goes when I ate too much meat. Just the simple act of noticing has led me to a healthier diet. The hardest part was relearning how to be present and aware, the rest is gravy.

Makes me wonder how much bullshit we've been fed over the years about ourselves.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#97

Post by tiglionabbit »

milesvp wrote: post #57
tiglionabbit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought eating fat with sugar was better than eating sugar alone since the fat slowed down the absorption of the sugar, thus dampening the insulin response.

Yeah, I'm not sure how to model the fat+sugar problem I keep hearing whispers of. I know from the research I did with my wife's gestational diabetes is that the glycemic index of a food went down if you added just about any other food volume that with a lower glycemic index. The best example I found was that toast is like the worst possible food you can eat in terms of GI, it was higher than anything but pure glucose…

Well, whatever we go with, we have to square it with the fact that fructose is worse than glucose in terms of causing diabetes.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#98

Post by crusso »

bigbugbag wrote: post #2

There's a BBC Horizon episodes with two identical twins, one goes for the low fat diet and the other for low carb diet to test which one is worse. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03t8r4h http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1amh2t_bbc-horizon-sugar-v...

That episode is no longer available, but I remember it when it was first released.

I wasn't at all impressed with the depth of the research they did before starting their experiment, their ability to stick to their diets, and their general understanding and approach to the potential science they could have been doing.

The whole thing was a superficial puff piece that you can't take seriously when evaluating something as important as health.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#100

Post by cr0sh »

kough wrote: post #69
cheald wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Have you ever tried to eat that much? The whole point of my comment is that it's very difficult to "blow past 2k calories in a single sitting." Not that it's impossible – obviously McDonald's has a lot of high-calorie foods.

There was a time I could eat an entire KFC bucket family meal in a single sitting. That was a long time ago, though. I've found that as I've gotten older, I've also "slowed down" on my eating.

That isn't to say I couldn't stand to eat less, or eat better today.

Nor is it to say I am not overweight - I am. But I've kinda gotten to the point that I just don't want to always be "lookin' over my shoulder" at what I eat. Instead, I just eat what I want to eat, when I want it, and just try to eat less of it. That includes better food, too.

I also try to exercise more; lately I've been doing 3-5 mile hikes with a friend on a Saturday and Sunday (or I'll do them by myself if he doesn't feel like going). I've been thinking about increasing that to a daily regimen (after work).

I also don't drink as much soda as I used to, and when I do, I try to drink only diet sodas. Otherwise I'll drink water (or if I am having a meal at home, I typically drink milk - but not always).

But yeah - there was a time I could easily eat that much, and blow past 2k calories no problem in a single meal. I could probably do it today, if I wanted to (but I'd feel bad afterward).

Plus - while it's easier to do with fast food - it can be done with regular food, too. One good-sized 24oz well-marbled rib-eye, a baked potato with all the fixin's, some kind of vegetable on the side, a salad with dressing, plus a large glass of milk - that's all enough to get you close if not over 2k calories.

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