Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#61

Post by cheald » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #54

Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#62

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #54

Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

[deleted]

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#63

Post by finid » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #20

ellyagg wrote: post #10

Neither by themselves, but when combined... I read somewhere that when they want to fatten up lab mice they feed them a mixture of 70% sugar and 30% fat or something similar. When you make something much more delicious and available than what appears in nature, it screws with an animal's energy balance signals.

The catch though is that you need fat to live. That is, without fat in your diet you're not able to digest plants. And if for whatever reason you're not eating enough fat, your body will crave sugar. So basically eat healthy fats. If you don't eat enough healthy fat (e.g. from walnuts), your body will start craving unhealthy fats. And if you don't eat either then your body will crazy sugar as a last resort. As far as…

And if for whatever reason you're not eating enough fat, your body will crave sugar.

That's in contra to how my system responds - it craves fat when I'm not eating enough of it. Since I gave up eating (refined) sugar, I don't even think about it.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#64

Post by sushisource » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #54

Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Yep. Anyone who has ever trained for a marathon or other endurance event understands that eating 4000+ calories a day is a chore. On top of the fact that you want these to be "good" calories... Let's just say I ate a lot of rice with veggies.

Which leads to the blunt advice I give most people seeking to lose weight. Sure, you might be genetically predisposed to have a slow metabolism, but at the end of the day "calories in / calories out" is as absolute a fact as it gets (of course, all things in moderation). So I say "You have two options: Eat less, work out more, pick the one you like."

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#65

Post by ramchip » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

kannan wrote: post #16

loader wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These twins also did one on Alcohol (Casual but Consistent vs Binging) which was pretty interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk

The episode isn't currently available, do you know what was the outcome of the experiment?

I found this: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#66

Post by cies » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #54

Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

> that's even with smoking weed to increase my appetite.

All in the name of science, of course.

I read a large milkshake at McD's has 850 calories, and I cannot imagine it costs more then 6 bucks.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#67

Post by ThrustVectoring » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

A lot of nutritional studies have a common flaw:

1. Various health outcomes and indicators are caused by a food or combination of foods that you regularly eat.

2. A diet is studied where these foods get removed from your diet, to be replaced with whatever the diet under study is.

3. The participants in the diet study have poorer than average health outcomes and indicators (otherwise, why would they try changing their diet?)

4. Regression to the mean happens, and all sorts of dietary changes appear to be good for your health.

Basically, if you're fatter than average, and it's caused by the foods you eat, you can fix that by making a list of everything you eat and not eating those foods. "Whatever you don't eat" is a more average diet than what you're currently eating, so you'll get more average results.

(This idea shamelessly stolen from HN user jimrandomh. Hopefully I didn't butcher the details too badly.)

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#68

Post by snarf21 » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

mcorley28 wrote: post #49

I think that it's a deadly combination of both. We tend to consume way to much sugar, and usually sugar without the associated natural fiber. The fats typically consumed are cheap, low quality fats and oils. Following a paleo-keto diet has been working wonders for me, I never felt or looked better in my 30+ years. So I think fats, when they are high quality, are the best source of fuel for the body.

So true, the one thing that people leave out is the human factor. It doesn't matter how "perfect" a diet is if the person can't follow it. Switching to vegetables, lean proteins and good fats (olives, almonds) is not complicated, just hard and hard to sustain for most people.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#69

Post by kough » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #61

kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Have you ever tried to eat that much? The whole point of my comment is that it's very difficult to "blow past 2k calories in a single sitting." Not that it's impossible – obviously McDonald's has a lot of high-calorie foods.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#70

Post by kough » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

dnissley wrote: post #59

kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

If you use that $6 to get 6 $1 McDoubles (are they still $1?) then you can get 2280 calories at 380 per burger.

There's a lot of food on the menu I refuse to eat because it's far too gross. McDoubles are one of them. Should have mentioned that in my earlier comment – some taste preferences are involved.