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Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

theintercept.com

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Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#51

Post by astrodust »

hackuser wrote: post #30
prklmn wrote: post #28

Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? We need to think of the internet as a public utility. How absurd would it be if every time you used water in your home, you heard an advertisement playing from a speaker in the faucet.

> Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? It's a very important point; this false argument is often used. In truth, in the marketplace, goods are not priced at 'cost-plus'; i.e., they aren't priced by taking the cost to the vendor and adding a profit margin. Goods are priced at the point that will maximize profit for the ven…

> Microsoft doesn't cut the price of Windows because they are making so much from Office.

Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office.

Microsoft Word vs. WordPerfect, Excel vs. Quattro Pro and Lotus 1-2-3. These battles were won because of Windows and that cemented their position as industry leader.

Now that Microsoft is in a dominant position they don't cut the price of Windows as much, but to remain on top they do give the OEMs a very sweet per-unit deal they really can't refuse.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#53

Post by hackuser »

astrodust wrote: post #51
hackuser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? It's a very important point; this false argument is often used. In truth, in the marketplace, goods are not priced at 'cost-plus'; i.e., they aren't priced by taking the cost to the vendor and adding a profit margin. Goods are priced at the point that will maximize profit for the ven…

> Microsoft doesn't cut the price of Windows because they are making so much from Office. Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office. Microsoft Word vs. WordPerfect, Excel vs. Quattro Pro and Lotus 1-2-3. These battles were won because of Windows and that cemented their position as industry leader. Now that Microsoft is in a dominan…

> Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office

If that's true (and that's not my understanding) they did it to gain marketshare and maximize profit, not because they already had enough profit. In that scenario, they cut the price of Windows to make even more from Office.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#54

Post by curiousgeorgio »

cwyers wrote: post #36
prklmn wrote: post #28

Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? We need to think of the internet as a public utility. How absurd would it be if every time you used water in your home, you heard an advertisement playing from a speaker in the faucet.

> Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? Almost certainly.

So true. It's easy to forget this point. Do the math:

Take all the content available to a cable subscriber, and the money that goes into producing that content. Take out the ads and split the bill (in addition to the relatively low costs of operating/maintaining the cable company itself) among the subscribers. That's just covering costs; now add a bit of profit to motivate those companies to stay in business.

There's no question you'd be paying more - a lot more. We just don't think the ads are saving us money because we don't know any different - that's just the way TV has been since the beginning.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#56

Post by slededit »

astrodust wrote: post #51
hackuser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? It's a very important point; this false argument is often used. In truth, in the marketplace, goods are not priced at 'cost-plus'; i.e., they aren't priced by taking the cost to the vendor and adding a profit margin. Goods are priced at the point that will maximize profit for the ven…

> Microsoft doesn't cut the price of Windows because they are making so much from Office. Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office. Microsoft Word vs. WordPerfect, Excel vs. Quattro Pro and Lotus 1-2-3. These battles were won because of Windows and that cemented their position as industry leader. Now that Microsoft is in a dominan…

They didn't cut the price. Rather they made a windows runtime available so you could run office on DOS. This was also available to third party ISVs.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#57

Post by cwyers »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #54
cwyers wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? Almost certainly.

So true. It's easy to forget this point. Do the math: Take all the content available to a cable subscriber, and the money that goes into producing that content. Take out the ads and split the bill (in addition to the relatively low costs of operating/maintaining the cable company itself) among the subscribers. That's just covering costs; now add a bit of profit to motivate those companies to stay in business. There's…

Another way to prove this to yourself is to think, could there be broadcast TV without ads? And of course, the whole broadcast model falls apart without advertising. But without broadcast to compete with, is it likely that basic cable would be as inexpensive as it is? Even if you're of the view that costs don't matter to price, only what the market will bear, it seems self-evident that the market will bear less when there's a free substitute of reasonable quality available.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#58

Post by eveningcoffee »

mfringel wrote: post #34
eveningcoffee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First there is strong bias here, so we actually do not know really if it is true. Second, lets imagine that poor people would prefer whipping instead of imprisonment (they can return to work sooner) or fine. Should we follow the same logic here then and accept it?

In your example, "whipping", "imprisonment", and "[or] fine" are all examples of punishments for a crime. Being poor is not a crime.

Of course being poor is not a crime. But we all may make mistakes. For example exceed the speed limit.

Say, instead of fine 50, I may agree to accept 5 whips with a wooden stick on my back. Because I need these 50.

So should we accept whipping the poor if they demand it?

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#59

Post by najati83 »

mundo wrote: post #32
prklmn wrote: post #28

Them wanting people to believe that this will lower the cost of internet service is laughable. Have TV ads lowered the cost of cable? We need to think of the internet as a public utility. How absurd would it be if every time you used water in your home, you heard an advertisement playing from a speaker in the faucet.

Every time I hear someone argue for the efficiencies of privatization, I think of my water utility emulating mobile carriers and billing me for "Anytime gallons" and "Nighttime gallons" and "Weekend gallons".

This happens in Europe, at least with electricity, you can choose a tariff that is cheaper during the night and more expensive during daytime.

Re: Comcast-Funded Civil Rights Groups Claim Low-Income People Want Ads Over Privacy

#60

Post by astrodust »

hackuser wrote: post #53
astrodust wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft doesn't cut the price of Windows because they are making so much from Office. Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office. Microsoft Word vs. WordPerfect, Excel vs. Quattro Pro and Lotus 1-2-3. These battles were won because of Windows and that cemented their position as industry leader. Now that Microsoft is in a dominan…

> Microsoft did cut the price of Windows to get people to adopt it early on because they would be making so much money from Office If that's true (and that's not my understanding) they did it to gain marketshare and maximize profit, not because they already had enough profit. In that scenario, they cut the price of Windows to make even more from Office.

They cut short term profits in order to cement long-term ones, so yeah, they were maximizing profits but over a longer time-scale than one transaction.
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