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To Paul Graham

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: To Paul Graham

#61

Post by shadowsun7 »

Ixiaus wrote: post #41
thaumaturgy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree, actually. More to the point, this submission violates both the written and unspoken rules of submissions here: "Please don't post on HN to ask or tell us something", and the unspoken rule that content-less submissions are generally frowned upon. This is something that could have been equally effective as a brief email to pg. As the current top-ranked post here, it's kind of ... masturbatory.

I up voted you because you're correct. It would have easily sufficed as an email to PG. However, the impact of appreciating something and having communal pooling of appreciation affirms the intent. I want HN to remain what it is and I did not want to be "just another email" in PG's inbox; I suppose by submitting this in the first place I contributed to "what HN is not" but I do still feel that my submission was appro…

> However, the impact of appreciating something and having communal pooling of appreciation affirms the intent. I want HN to remain what it is and I did not want to be "just another email" in PG's inbox

This is an incredibly convoluted explanation of what can simply be called grandstanding. I appreciate your intent, but please - we all want HN to remain what it is. If your intent was to thank pg, email him. If your intent was to communicate your want for HN to stay the same - do so when there is some threat to what we hold valuable. Otherwise: post intelligent replies, downvote trolls and submit the occasional illuminating article. Threads like this (and others like it) do no good for any of your stated aims.

Re: To Paul Graham

#62

Post by Gnolfo »

Ixiaus wrote: post #41
thaumaturgy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree, actually. More to the point, this submission violates both the written and unspoken rules of submissions here: "Please don't post on HN to ask or tell us something", and the unspoken rule that content-less submissions are generally frowned upon. This is something that could have been equally effective as a brief email to pg. As the current top-ranked post here, it's kind of ... masturbatory.

I up voted you because you're correct. It would have easily sufficed as an email to PG. However, the impact of appreciating something and having communal pooling of appreciation affirms the intent. I want HN to remain what it is and I did not want to be "just another email" in PG's inbox; I suppose by submitting this in the first place I contributed to "what HN is not" but I do still feel that my submission was appro…

It's not the single odd submission that comes up that is really what offends, it's more of the slippery slope it invites that historically can overwhelm the quality of popular websites. Take the frequency of outlier commentary and multiply it by the internet and you get trouble.

It can be curbed with a culture of self moderation, it can be curbed with enforced rules and other barriers, a good early example of this is Something Awful's combination of introducing a registration fee along with a reputation for banning users who posted crap. It's survived through the years and I'd venture this was a factor.

But the point is if your site becomes highly popular there will always be the risk of drowning under a low signal:noise ratio. Hence the sensitivity to posts like this here because the HN crowd as a whole has a lot of experience with this phenomenom.

Re: To Paul Graham

#63

Post by vladocar »

It's not only the simplicity but also the purpose. HN gathers people with similar objectives and interest. Designers and developers who want to experiment with the new technologies and create and share there own business.

Re: To Paul Graham

#64

Post by pg »

Thanks very much. I don't think it's really HN's features or lack of them is the attraction for most users though, but the quality of the submissions and comments. So thank you guys.

Ironically I've been thinking of adding some variant of following as a way to deal with the increasing volume of comments. I just haven't had time to yet.

I did recently (about 3 weeks ago) tweak the algorithm for ranking comments, and that has had a noticeable effect. Previously it was the same as the one for ranking frontpage stories. Now it also considers among other things the average comment score of the submitter. With any luck this will keep HN poised in its usual position mid-way over the shark for another 6 months.

Re: To Paul Graham

#65

Post by dhimes »

paulgb wrote: post #45
gte910h wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I might be more tempted to null or downvote the original point if the second one is better" Can't both comments be good?

Agreed. I upvote contradictory comments all the time. I don't see it as lacking consistency; I'm voting for quality and thought, not necessarily "right" opinions.

I'm voting for quality and thought, not necessarily "right" opinions

Then you are doing it right.

Re: To Paul Graham

#66

Post by stanleydrew »

kierank wrote: post #29
edw519 wrote: post #16

I imagine hn owes a lot of success to its simplicity. I was always confused by slashdot's filters and the threads in almost every other forum, with Post #18 replying to Post #7 and Post #27 replying to Post #3, but only 10 posts visible per page. Busy people don't have the time to wade through stuff like that, so all you're left with are the trolls. hn's nested threads built with are so simple that they're brilliant.…

Hacker News is the craigslist of Social News sites.

But I hate using craigslist. I only use it because I have to.

Re: To Paul Graham

#67

Post by _pius »

Ixiaus wrote: post #56
_pius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the impact of appreciating something and having communal pooling of appreciation affirms the intent ... While I also like the same HN features you like, I didn't upvote your post because it just felt too obsequious.

I think there is a defined line between obsequiousness and appreciation. I feel the tone of my post actually leaned on the side of appreciation than it did "obedient or servile". I suppose that any sort of "Thank you" statement could be taken for fawning, particularly in a community that values a karmic rating system; as I said in my reply above, I still think my post was submitted with a clear and intelligent choice…

And I guess a lot of folks agreed with you, as your post is at 251 points and counting.

Re: To Paul Graham

#68

Post by barmstrong »

coderdude wrote: post #58
petercooper wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hn's nested threads built with are so simple that they're brilliant. No horizontal scrolling, no flipping between pages, just click "reply" and you're good to go. I don't think s should get undue praise. With s, the code would be easier to read mechanically (for manipulation with Greasemonkey, say) and even though there'd be a little more CSS, the page weight might be reduced a little (I'd have to make a mockup to be…

I disagree. Tables are still the most reliable way to display content under nearly all circumstances (maybe less so on mobiles, but definitely on the desktop). They've been stable for years and years. I went through the hardcore standards phase where I thought it would be the death of my soul if I ever went back to using tables for layout, but then I read a great article (wish I had the link) that struck a chord with…

Yeah this could quickly devolve into a flame about divs vs tables. But divs I always saw as a step backwards in one aspect: programmer ease of use. In divs you have to spend time thinking about "float drop", doing math in your head, and getting all the columns to have the same height - things which "just work" in tables. It still surprises me sometimes how quickly they were adopted.

Re: To Paul Graham

#69

Post by mshafrir »

petercooper wrote: post #38
edw519 wrote: post #16

I imagine hn owes a lot of success to its simplicity. I was always confused by slashdot's filters and the threads in almost every other forum, with Post #18 replying to Post #7 and Post #27 replying to Post #3, but only 10 posts visible per page. Busy people don't have the time to wade through stuff like that, so all you're left with are the trolls. hn's nested threads built with are so simple that they're brilliant.…

hn's nested threads built with are so simple that they're brilliant. No horizontal scrolling, no flipping between pages, just click "reply" and you're good to go. I don't think s should get undue praise. With s, the code would be easier to read mechanically (for manipulation with Greasemonkey, say) and even though there'd be a little more CSS, the page weight might be reduced a little (I'd have to make a mockup to be…

Don't unordered lists make more sense than divs in this case?
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