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Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

nytimes.com

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Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#181
post #170

If engineers would refuse to implement privacy invasions, they wouldn't happen. Do you work for Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, Time-Warner, CenturyLink, Charter, Cox, Frontier? Don't implement these things. Don't do deep packet inspection, don't log things that shouldn't be logged, don't put in MITM proxies and don't insert cookies in traffic that your customers expected to have unmolested. Explain your decision, and explai…

> If engineers would refuse to implement privacy invasions, they wouldn't happen. That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money. Now, if there was a professional organization or union with some teeth, which could enforce some kind of ethical code, then maybe "engineers" could do something about stuff like this. I'm not sure how it would work…

>That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money.

So true

>Now, if there was a professional organization or union with some teeth, which could enforce some kind of ethical code, then maybe "engineers" could do something about stuff like this.

That won't work either. A few years ago most of the "programmers/developers/computer scientists" I worked with (we weren't pretending to be engineers yet), all had C-S degrees (either C-S undergrad or math/physics undergrad with C-S masters+). And by and large these people were usually members of the ACM or IEEE.

Now with the rise of the "self tough (software) engineer", these professional organizations are weaker than ever before. My cube make is not only likely to be a boot camp graduate, they are likely to not know what the ACM is, never mind any ethical standards its has and of course have no concern for being kicked out.

Now I am not saying all this is good or bad, democratization of technology has pros and cons. But its a shift that makes depending on professional orgs more worthless than ever before. (some of this is also coast vs inland US, the west coast as always had more self-tough vs academia tought programmers).

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't have a moment to read your sources at the moment. But weren't the protections only put into place last year because they weren't needed until then? In other words, they were under the jurisdiction of the FTC previously, so this particular legislation a moot point, because the FTC could just say "hey, you can't do that. case closed." Now because of the "common carrier exemption" I don't think that would hold up.…

If legal opinion is now that the FTC does not have the ability to regulate internet privacy, it is not the fault of congress, it is the fault of the 9th circuit's ruling ruling last year [1], which has effect over its area of jurisdiction. Traditionally it is the FTC which regulates consumer privacy. The republican's position w.r.t. internet privacy is that regulating this is in the domain of the FTC, as has always b…

They rolled back the FCC's privacy rules. They did not restore the FTC's privacy rules. Best to pay attention to the things they do rather than the things they say.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#183
post #55
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because why the push to undo something if they weren't planning to do it, or weren't already? I know Verizon has an opt in program for it where they gave you deals and free data.

Can't argue with that, but again, the status quo for many, many years was that your ISP could have done this, but didn't. And the next time there's a changing of the guard the protections will be put back in place, so I can't see how ISPs are going to bet on selling this information as a viable long-term business strategy.

Things have changed, though. Many ISPs are also cable TV providers. Netflix is now at 98m paid subscribers (worldwide), with cable footprint at 94 million (US). Somewhat apples to oranges numbers there, but also:

"The thirteen largest pay-TV providers in the US, representing about 95% of the market, lost about 385,000 net video subscribers in 2015." http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/03/11/us-pay-tv-continue...

The ISPs have been complaining about being reduced to a dumb pipe for a while now. They are very motivated to increase data revenue...

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#184

I want a privacy first router. Does such a product exist? Key features: - I pay a subscription for maintenance (so I'm not the product) say $10/mo - Automatically routes all traffic over a VPN. - Smart VPN bypass for performance-sensitive traffic like streaming video and gaming - Provides non-logging DNS service - Automatic advertisement blocking For VPN, DNS, and adblock I want the option to use servers & block list…

I use a service called Cloak[1], and I'm super happy with it. I'm getting 75MB/s down over my Wifi while VPNd through their service. I often forget that it is on because it _just works_. I have no affiliation with them, I just think they make a good product.

[1](https://www.getcloak.com/)

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If engineers would refuse to implement privacy invasions, they wouldn't happen. That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money. Now, if there was a professional organization or union with some teeth, which could enforce some kind of ethical code, then maybe "engineers" could do something about stuff like this. I'm not sure how it would work…

>That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money. So true >Now, if there was a professional organization or union with some teeth, which could enforce some kind of ethical code, then maybe "engineers" could do something about stuff like this. That won't work either. A few years ago most of the "programmers/developers/computer scientists" I work…

> And by and large these people were usually members of the ACM or IEEE.

> But its a shift that makes depending on professional orgs more worthless than ever before.

I don't think those organizations have ever had any "teeth" in any space, let alone the professional one. I don't think anything like what I'm talking about had ever existed for programmers. I'm thinking of something like more like a Bar Association (like for lawyers) with regulatory/licensing powers or a union with labor-market power. I admit, both are unlikely to arise anytime soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_association#Mandatory.2C_i...

> Some states require membership in the state's bar association to practice law there. Such an organization is called a mandatory, integrated, or unified bar,[3][4] and is a type of government-granted monopoly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disbarment:

> Disbarment is the removal of a lawyer from a bar association or the practice of law, thus revoking his or her law license or admission to practice law. Disbarment is usually a punishment for unethical or criminal conduct. Procedures vary depending on the law society.

> Generally disbarment is imposed as a sanction for conduct indicating that an attorney is not fit to practice law, willfully disregarding the interests of a client, or engaging in fraud which impedes the administration of justice.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#187

The Hacker News mods should comment why this post has been 'bumped' from the top spot and why it's title is no longer the original title of the article. From the https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html : > Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait. The title is the original, it wasn't misleading and it isn't 'linkbait'. Its the premise of the article and it's the truth. dan…

A moderator replaced the original title (which was absolutely as linkbait as they come) with a representative phrase from the article. This topic has been discussed extensively already, so this article received many user flags as well as the standard penalty for follow-on posts.

Related discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13942345

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13981184

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13951347

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13967955

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13983235

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13973727

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#188
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VPN This is a political problem. Technology like a VPN or alternative DNS is little more than a placebo. With the ISP as a permanent MitM, modern deep-packet inspection, etc , you are probably still leaking a lot of information. Worse, you're only moving the problem to a different location. Even if you were able to hide your traffic from your local ISP, your VPN host or DNS service becomes your ISP de facto . Also,…

> Those of us that do understand the technology have a duty to help the people without that knowledge and experience. No, we don't. The fact that the "common people" don't value privacy enough led to this whole situation. Those that do value privacy, can pay for it with their money (or their time to learn).

I think the problem is not that most people don't value privacy, it's that most are unaware of the privacy issues that affect them, or have been misled to believe that the cost of having the websites and services that they rely on (facebook, gmail, etc.) is necessarily tied to giving up privacy.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#189
post #63

Internet Provisers -- that's Google and Facebook, right? On a more serious note, people need to understand that every domain you visit, every query you search, every digital conversation you have, every number you call, every movie you watch or book you read, everything you buy, unless you take active measures to mask your identity that record is being retained by as many different people that can get their hands on…

> ...is being retained by as many different people that can get their hands on it as possible.

Which isn't a big deal as long as the data is only being used for internal use (e.g. UX purposes) to make the product better.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#190
post #170

If engineers would refuse to implement privacy invasions, they wouldn't happen. Do you work for Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, Time-Warner, CenturyLink, Charter, Cox, Frontier? Don't implement these things. Don't do deep packet inspection, don't log things that shouldn't be logged, don't put in MITM proxies and don't insert cookies in traffic that your customers expected to have unmolested. Explain your decision, and explai…

> If engineers would refuse to implement privacy invasions, they wouldn't happen. That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money. Now, if there was a professional organization or union with some teeth, which could enforce some kind of ethical code, then maybe "engineers" could do something about stuff like this. I'm not sure how it would work…

> That'll never work, as long as it's just a personal ethical thing. There's always someone who would rather take the money.

Sure, but "I was just following orders because someone else was gonna" isn't going to win any ethical arguments. The point is the tech worker that implements these things is complicit, whether it's the database system for a list of Muslims or privacy invasion.

Additionally, the sentiment is that tech workers can easily get another job, so "just following orders to pay the rent/mortgage" doesn't hold up either.

To use an extreme example, if my work gave me a gun and tell me to go shoot a particular somebody, I'm going to refuse to do it (and tell the police). I'm sure they could find a murderer-for-hire, but I'm still not gonna be the one to pull the trigger.

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