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Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

thestartupconference.com

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Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#111

Post by pm90 »

jasode wrote: post #78

The way the article frames the $350k competitive salary as a "problem" for startups is backwards. If you're a businessman, you build a business that works with the prevailing pricing that's out there. That includes prices for everything such as raw materials, office rent, AWS/GCP cloud costs, government taxes & fees, and yes, high programmer salaries. Complaining that your startup is "hurt" because AWS egress transfe…

I agree with most of your comment. One thing to note though is the whole scandal where Steve Jobs colluded with other firms into a non-poaching kind of agreement, essentially distorting the market. So that is a possible outcome as well.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#112

Post by aphextron »

There are a million different factors where startups are at a disadvantage to big tech companies. That's the whole point of a startup. Of course you can't compete on salaries. But if you're smart you'll find that startups have many advantages in recruiting that the big companies don't. Namely self determination and recognition - the two most coveted workplace qualities of any good hacker.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#113

Post by joshuamorton »

tonfa wrote: post #84
awalton wrote: post #43

The "Google compensation package" (not Salary) is making it a realistic option for Google employees to buy homes in the Bay Area after a few years of work. (Unfortunately thereafter, the RSU pyramid makes it really hard to leave Google, since you'd be giving up a virtual fortune, shimmering off in the distance like a mirage...) Your startups... aren't doing any of that. Most of them pay shit-all for equity and salary…

> Unfortunately thereafter, the RSU pyramid makes it really hard to leave Google, since you'd be giving up a virtual fortune, shimmering off in the distance like a mirage... Never understood that argument, how is it different from your base salary, isn't it a similar mirage? Per year you get XX USD in RSUs vesting, you don't have to consider granted RSUs as being "yours".

It is about 80% an instance of the sunk cost fallacy, but RSU payout is based on past performance, so higher performing employees will be granted more RSUs. That means that if you got a 10% RSU bonus over average due to performance, you'd be losing out on a portion of your compensation for your past work.

Also there's something to be said for "the mirage I know is better than the mirage I don't know". Although in general I'd agree, if you're capable of performing well at one of the big guys, you can probably go to any of them, and get a starting bonus to offset your "losses".

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#114

Post by matt_wulfeck »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48
meddlepal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered alternative comp mechanics? For example, I know it may sound unorthodox, but short work weeks is an awesome perk and worth a lot IMO. Other things like guaranteeing to ship engineers off to a conference per quarter of their choice and paying for a day and night of travel expenses + a day off so they can explore the destination is pretty cool too. How does your company handle IP assignment also for…

I would trade at least $15k/year for a four day work week.

I thought about this myself as well. To me a 20% reduction in work days is well worth a 20% reduction in pay. This is an easy perk that is offered at no large companies.

Sadly it's not widespread. And I fear most companies wouldn't be well prepared to actually execute on it.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#115

Post by Bahamut »

drewg123 wrote: post #95
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that Google often has A class talent doing B or C class work; e.g. an expert in PL will often be working on ads. Sure the pay is great, but it can feel soul sucking. A startup can be appealing to some talented people if the work is interesting, even if the pay isn't as good.

I knew several people in roles like this when I was there. They had somebody who had done a PhD in OS research working on startup scripts.

I have a former colleague from academia with a PhD in math (his focus was algebraic number theory) who works at Google...writing a lot of JavaScript - the kicker is he enjoys it a lot more than his time in academia (I feel the same way as a PhD dropout myself - I primarily write JS/manage engineers now).

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#116

Post by falsedan »

heurist wrote: post #60
falsedan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because: they're fresh out of college and haven't met anyone burned by an IPO/bubble burst & realised how that could be them.

Because being underutilized in a large company is unfulfilling. Because being a staff engineer in a large company gets you no closer to running your own business. Because you want to learn technology that you cannot yet compete for. Because options outside of large companies are limited, especially if you are unable to take large immediate financial risks.

Why not: work for a large company that can do both? Pay reasonably well with low-risk, and let you grow your technology skills + contacts?

A: those companies aren't cool & won't make you a millionaire by 35 on stock options (whereas a startup might)

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#117

Post by eldavido »

monkmartinez wrote: post #18

I am naive... however, some opinions... If the startup is truly revolutionary|innovative, shouldn't we see VC's pounding down the doors to give them money? If they have money, shouldn't they spend that on their personnel (assuming they are not manufacturing robots or something) if we are talking software? Seems to me that startups want to have their cake and eat it too. If you have money to pay, then pay competitive…

There's a limit to how much a company can raise pre-product/pre-traction. It hinges a lot on the team and whether they've had a big exit.

Keep in mind, most early-stage funding is done by angels who "work for themselves", not VCs -- real, true VCs work for their limited partners (investors) and if a deal goes south, there can be a lot of "how the hell did this get funded" blowback that can be career-limiting.

So as much as I like to think VC can change, their incentives do make it a bit difficult.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#118

Post by joshuamorton »

soreasan wrote: post #97
eknight15 wrote: post #9

It's about location. Google salaries in Boulder, CO are not that high.

What are Google salaries in Colorado like?

Lower than in Bay/NYC, but still good, partially offset by the lower state tax rate, and (signing) RSUs aren't any lower than in the Bay, which means that take home pay for someone in Colorado after rent can be higher.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#119

Post by pm90 »

Toenex wrote: post #62
throwaway2016a wrote: post #21

I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…

For comparison, what do Google et. al. pay in the UK? I work in a small medtech in Manchester UK (like a scaled down Boston!) and simply currency adjusting these numbers would make for attractive offers here. For example I've a PhD in computer vision, 20 years building and selling medical device approved imaging software in the EU & US and have yet to be offered anything close to $100K (yes dollars) and options that…

If you have a PhD AND 20 years of job experience, I am sorry to say you are doing something really wrong if your base salary has not crossed the six figure mark. Maybe companies in the UK don't pay as much as those in the US; I wouldn't know. If that is the case though, I would suggest that you work in the US for a few years and maybe move back and try to negotiate a better offer. Having EU/UK citizenship makes it much easier for you to work in the US and I would implore you to make the most use of it.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#120

Post by HelloNurse »

RamshackleJ wrote: post #68
znq wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. For both of our companies [1][2] we pay a fair salary plus a quarterly bonus on top of that based on what we can give (based on the company's quarterly profit results). We also offer remote retreats (so far Cape Town, Thailand, Martinique, Spain and Skiing in the Alps) and the biggest contributor to everyone's satisfaction is that we let everyone work from where ever they want and as much as they want as l…

I'm always curious about companies who talk about "caring about things other than just money". Maybe I'm missing somethings but if you are a for-profit company by definition you care about money, any claims other wise feel like marketing.

If employees don't care about their money, why should they care about the company's money?
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