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UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

bbc.com

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Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#291

Post by zeveb »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #144
krona wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which will include higher prices Interesting. I was in a UK supermarket the other day and the asparagus on offer was from Spain and Mexico. The Mexican variety was cheaper, and just as good. Currently, Mexico pays a 14.4% common external tariff on this product, and it's still cheaper than what the EU (with it's massive array of agricultural subsidy) can produce. I imagine this is just the tip of the iceberg.

That may be because the minimum wages are massively different for the two countries, with $0.48/hr in Mexico vs $4.98/hr in Spain[1]. Globalism does exploit the lower standard of living of other countries, after all. That means that even though there are massive tariffs, these "third world" countries can still make a profit because of the abysmal quality of life for its citizens. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis…

Globalism, of course, is the only thing which can improve the abysmal quality of life of third-world citizens.

Unless you can think of a reason why a jobless Mexican will have a better standard of living than one making 48¢/hour.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#292

Post by alkonaut »

Since the actual outcome now seems to be that it'sore England leaving the UK, than the UK leaving the EU - doesn't that constitute a huge change in circumstances, enough to warrant at least a parliamentary election before the exit is triggered?

I mean, imagine if the Brexit ballot had said "Do you want for the UK to remain intact in the EU, or be broken apart with England and Wales leaving the EU?"

Or if it had 3 options

- remain

- leave

- leave, if the UK stays intact.

Leave would never had won. Which makes this whole charade completely insane.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#293

Post by coldtea »

untog wrote: post #266
coldtea wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Independence" it's not about some lone man bellowing "ME". It's about like-minded people sharing a common culture (as developed historically up to some point), over a hodge podge of states being united by sheer power or top-down dictum. Empires and kings ruled thanks to tons of bloodshed and continued vigilance and stomping of revolts. The "Great Britain" itself is a bad example -- it lost colony after colony due to…

> It's about like-minded people sharing a common culture (as developed historically up to some point) But it's that "some point" that makes everything wishy washy. If I'm in favour of Scottish independence I cite common Scottish culture. If I'm in favour of the UK I cite the hundreds of years of shared culture. If I'm in favour of the EU I cite decades of shared culture. None of these are wrong, despite being in clea…

>But it's that "some point" that makes everything wishy washy. If I'm in favour of Scottish independence I cite common Scottish culture. If I'm in favour of the UK I cite the hundreds of years of shared culture. If I'm in favour of the EU I cite decades of shared culture. None of these are wrong, despite being in clear disagreement with each other.

Well, it's up to what the majority likes.

Everything is wishy-washy in human affairs -- because opinions differ, people value this or that more etc.

But in the end, it's also people who get, or should get, to decide what they want to do.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#294

Post by JamesMcMinn »

krona wrote: post #287
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anecdotal: not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research. By definition, it is anecdotal. A single piece of price data observed only by you with no evidence is not proof that EU grown vegetables are more expensive than those from Mexico. To say that someones supermarket bill going up is somehow more anecdotal than "I found asparagus from Spain that cost more than…

I'm providing empirical evidence of a verifiable claim that is either true or false. You can argue about the rigorousness of the claim, but regardless it can be independently verified.

Empirical evidence justifies or disproves a claim. A single point of data does not justify the claim that vegetables from Mexico are cheaper than vegetables from the EU - all you have done is state that you once found a vegetable from one source country for cheaper than the same vegetable from another country - you haven't provided any evidence what-so-ever (the name of the supermarket, the prices, the volumes, the different brands), just made a claim.

Empirical evidence in this case would be a large scale survey of the prices of comparable vegetables across multiple supermarkets, over a long period (several years to cover seasonal variance in prices).

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#295

Post by pbhjpbhj »

coldtea wrote: post #250
mrcarrot wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?

> where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it match…

The glyphosate thing was IARC (Int.Agency for Cancer Research) deeming that it was probably cancer causing; IIRC there's evidence suggesting that the US EPA had been corrupted in order to pass glyphosate for use. The FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations) and WHO have reportedly since determined that it is "safe" [enough] for human consumption and the ECHA (Euro. Chem. Agency) have determined that a ban is not required.

Pulling glyphosate would be devastating. But keeping it if it's causing widespread cancer would be continuing to ruin lives too. The Tories controlling the UK would IMO be more likely to let the proles die and support the farmers (who historically have a Tory preference). I prefer the EU's scientific and cautionary stance to the "will it cause loss of profit for shareholders" stance that we're going to be seeing much more of.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#296

Post by throwaaaway »

krona wrote: post #232
lhopki01 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes anecdotal evidence of one trip to the supermarket which has nothing to do with the very terrible winter in Southern Europe. Time for anecdotal evidence. My weekly supermarket bill has been going up since the Brexit vote.

This is the UK's largest supermarket chain, so this it's hardly anecdotal evidence; What I said is verifiable, and doesn't rely on my own witness account. Meanwhile, a statement like My weekly supermarket bill has been going up since the Brexit vote is completely meaningless.

HN please pardon my language but you Kronadude, you're an idiot.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#298

Post by scrollaway »

coldtea wrote: post #163
Svip wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nothing happens, what was the point then?

Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.

Why is the national level different to the continental and regional levels?

You can apply that same logic to counties: Greater London is very different than Leicestershire. Why should Leicestershire apply laws that are designed to fit London workers? Why can't they make their own laws?

Forget counties, why not neighbourhoods? And so on.

I'm obviously not serious about this, but the logic doesn't hold just because your nationality is different. The average briton has far more in common with the average french, than the average londoner has in common with the average belfaster.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#299

Post by fredley »

Chaebixi wrote: post #285
fredley wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independence from what? Should England be an Independent state? London? The City of London?

Do those things have identities as independent nations/cultures?

England / The City of London, yes.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#300

Post by alkonaut »

empressplay wrote: post #50

Democracy is a double-edged sword. I may not like the way it cuts sometimes, but no way in hell I'll ever put it down.

I think democracy should be reserved for when people are given the true outcome on the ballot. Here the secret was that the kingdom will dissolve in case of leave. Had people known that the outcome would have been different. I think the will to keep the UK is stronger than the will to leave the EU. That, and the fake news storm about NHS money and whatnot led to this. It's a stolen referendum by the forces that wanted to leave.
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