Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 242 posts

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#71

Post by Latty »

xienze wrote: post #55
Operyl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because why the push to undo something if they weren't planning to do it, or weren't already? I know Verizon has an opt in program for it where they gave you deals and free data.

Can't argue with that, but again, the status quo for many, many years was that your ISP could have done this, but didn't. And the next time there's a changing of the guard the protections will be put back in place, so I can't see how ISPs are going to bet on selling this information as a viable long-term business strategy.

"We shouldn't blame the Republican's for repealing this protection pointlessly, because the Democrats will put it back when they get in power."

Seriously? Free pass to do bad stuff because "it won't last". Come on.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#72

Post by djoldman »

The fact that this law has passed raises an interesting question: can a private citizen request and receive any and all information from a government entity about the users of that government's various assets? For instance:

1. Detailed data on the number, character, weight, etc. of every car that passes on a government road. (cameras record license plates, traffic videos exist, weigh stations are sometimes required for trucks, etc.)

2. Power companies bill the owning address for every power meter connected to the grid - therefore it should be possible to compile detailed historical data on power use. (watt-hours used, at least in monthly time-slices, possibly with geo-locating data, etc.)

3. Same as above for water use.

It seems to me that if the government is going to make it legal for a provider of services that run on government owned property (telephone/internet lines, which if not in all cases outright owned by the federal government, ARE deeply regulated by it), then why not all the databases concerning all gov. property?

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#73

Post by xienze »

falcolas wrote: post #58
xienze wrote: post #40

So the only thing I don't understand as far as the fuss about this is concerned -- everything I've read indicates that this is undoing a protection put in place late last year. So essentially we've gone back in time six months ago or so. If ISPs weren't selling our info then when they could have, why does it logically follow that we're now in some uncharted territory of ISPs selling personal info? Or is this simply b…

There were some ISPs which were selling people's data prior to this order (Verizon was one, IIRC, and a few others were actively injecting ads and JS into non-TLS traffic), and many more were considering it. Yes, we've "essentially" just gone back in time, but it's not a positive regression.

> Yes, we've "essentially" just gone back in time, but it's not a positive regression.

I agree, but with the way this thing has been reported you'd think we've gone back to the dark ages rather than where we were just prior to the election. I don't recall a lot of discussion on HN about which proxy to use because "OMG my ISP is going to sell my browsing history!!!" back then.

That's all I'm getting at. Wondering why the reaction to going back to the status quo of not long ago at all is seen as some assault on civil liberties.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#74

Post by xienze »

Latty wrote: post #65
xienze wrote: post #40

So the only thing I don't understand as far as the fuss about this is concerned -- everything I've read indicates that this is undoing a protection put in place late last year. So essentially we've gone back in time six months ago or so. If ISPs weren't selling our info then when they could have, why does it logically follow that we're now in some uncharted territory of ISPs selling personal info? Or is this simply b…

I don't get your point, even if no one does do it, why repeal the protection? It's effort and time wasted just to create a potential for something bad to happen. Even if you think this will never be abused, I don't see how it's being blown out of proportion, this is still bad.

> I don't see how it's being blown out of proportion

Really? Where was all the hyperventilating about the status quo on HN prior to when the protection was put in place? That's all I'm getting at, the reaction to being back in the dark ages of late 2016 seems a bit overblown in my opinion.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#75

Post by twsted »

edraferi wrote: post #68

I want a privacy first router. Does such a product exist? Key features: - I pay a subscription for maintenance (so I'm not the product) say $10/mo - Automatically routes all traffic over a VPN. - Smart VPN bypass for performance-sensitive traffic like streaming video and gaming - Provides non-logging DNS service - Automatic advertisement blocking For VPN, DNS, and adblock I want the option to use servers & block list…

> I'm confident the maintenance hassle will eventually outweigh my desire for privacy.

Nothing should outweigh your right for privacy.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#77

Post by ericd »

xienze wrote: post #40

So the only thing I don't understand as far as the fuss about this is concerned -- everything I've read indicates that this is undoing a protection put in place late last year. So essentially we've gone back in time six months ago or so. If ISPs weren't selling our info then when they could have, why does it logically follow that we're now in some uncharted territory of ISPs selling personal info? Or is this simply b…

The FTC was preventing them, until it was decided that it was outside their purview. The FCC took over, but that's just been reversed. Now no one is preventing it.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#78

Post by xienze »

Latty wrote: post #71
xienze wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't argue with that, but again, the status quo for many, many years was that your ISP could have done this, but didn't. And the next time there's a changing of the guard the protections will be put back in place, so I can't see how ISPs are going to bet on selling this information as a viable long-term business strategy.

"We shouldn't blame the Republican's for repealing this protection pointlessly, because the Democrats will put it back when they get in power." Seriously? Free pass to do bad stuff because "it won't last". Come on.

I'm not giving them a free pass, I'd prefer the protections to be in place. But I'm just putting the situation in perspective. My observation is just that I'm perplexed about the amount of "sky is falling" reactions here when you couldn't find a peep about "which VPN do I use to keep my ISP from selling my data" on HN say, a year ago.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#79

Post by edraferi »

twsted wrote: post #75
edraferi wrote: post #68

I want a privacy first router. Does such a product exist? Key features: - I pay a subscription for maintenance (so I'm not the product) say $10/mo - Automatically routes all traffic over a VPN. - Smart VPN bypass for performance-sensitive traffic like streaming video and gaming - Provides non-logging DNS service - Automatic advertisement blocking For VPN, DNS, and adblock I want the option to use servers & block list…

> I'm confident the maintenance hassle will eventually outweigh my desire for privacy. Nothing should outweigh your right for privacy.

Sure, but there's a cost to exercise that right. Right now, the cost of protecting myself from my ISP is quite high. I need to maintain DNS and VPN settings for every device in my home... many of which are personal devices of other family members with little patience for such techno-babble.

I want a product that reduces the cost of exercising my right to privacy, and allows me to pay that cost with money instead of time.

Re: Disapproval of FCC regulations a significant blow against privacy protection

#80

Post by sbov »

0xfeba wrote: post #21

> In 2016, the F.C.C., which I led as chairman under President Barack Obama, extended those same protections to the internet. Oh how nice of Tom Wheeler to play the good-guy now. It took a lot of public outcry for him to change his tune about Net Neutrality.

We need to laud people who change their positions for the better, not continue to becry them. It's harder for people to admit they are wrong than be right in the first place.
Post reply on HN