Live data from Hacker News

UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

bbc.com

201–210 of 649 posts

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said before the referendum: the EU cannot strive for the closest relationship possible because that would encourage other countries to leave. There must be a price, an ongoing cost. Britain is trapped with a forked strategy: it can go the Singapore route or the supplicant route. The two are incompatible and neither of them is realistically feasible. The Singapore route is what hard Brexiteers want but…

the EU cannot strive for the closest relationship possible because that would encourage other countries to leave. There must be a price, an ongoing cost. I don't understand why this wasn't a centerpiece of the Remain campaign.

Because it makes the EU look evil, and remaining looks like submitting to bullies.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#202

Democracy is a double-edged sword. I may not like the way it cuts sometimes, but no way in hell I'll ever put it down.

>> I may not like the way it cuts sometimes, but no way in hell I'll ever put it down.

Why not? It's not a perfect process and blindly accepting it because 'democracy is good' is dangerous.

Personally I'm against Brexit and don't think we should go through with it. BUT the reason I don't think we should go through with it is that most voters were woefully uninformed or completely misinformed. Both sides were lied to and manipulated. Having a referendum on an issue that experts fail to understand is just plain idiotic. If there was a way to have a well informed vote and it didn't go my way I would accept it without complaint.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#203
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nothing happens, what was the point then?

Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.

Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said before the referendum: the EU cannot strive for the closest relationship possible because that would encourage other countries to leave. There must be a price, an ongoing cost. Britain is trapped with a forked strategy: it can go the Singapore route or the supplicant route. The two are incompatible and neither of them is realistically feasible. The Singapore route is what hard Brexiteers want but…

the EU cannot strive for the closest relationship possible because that would encourage other countries to leave. There must be a price, an ongoing cost. I don't understand why this wasn't a centerpiece of the Remain campaign.

To echo the other poster - because it looks like the actions of an empire-building bully. It looks like spite.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#205
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its just an instance of the classic overly emotional "these people dont want me here so fuck them, who are they to ask me to acquire a formality". OP could just as well seek naturalization if hes actually spent his entire life there.

He was naturalised.

If hes a citizen of the UK, he certainly wont need a visa to stay.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#206

I'm a bit tired of reading doomsday messages by now. I am an European living and working in the UK and even though this affects me I have no reason to believe that things will go downwards now. If there's anything I've learned so far then that every analysis I've read couldn't have been more wrong. It almost seems like the more the UK economy doesn't collapse the more people shout even louder how bad the Brexit is. M…

> Also I seriously don't think of the Brexit that the UK leaves Europe. I think the UK and the EU will strive for the closest relationship possible. The only thing that I see changing is that the UK withdraws from a formal contract with the EU with the hope to negotiate a better deal.

It's against the EU's best interests to give the UK a good deal in Article 50 negotiations. This has been said over and over again and the arguments are still just as valid as they were right after the vote: giving the UK a good deal sets a precedent.

Likewise it was obvious that the UK would trigger Article 50 and wouldn't hold another referendum because it would have been against their best interests to do anything else.

Cameron played an international game of chicken, risking the UK's special privileges in the EU and the 51% called his bluff. Not following through would have meant losing the only trump card the UK had available in EU negotiations: threatening to leave if the UK can't have it "their way".

It's basically a scenario of Mutually Assured Destruction but the UK actually pulled the trigger. The UK had no other choice than to follow through and file for Article 50. The EU has no other choice than to give the UK the worst deal both sides can agree on. The incentives are simply stacked against a mutually beneficial agreement because either side backing off would lose their face.

Of course there are still open questions: will the UK accept a shoddy deal or just let the negotiations default to a complete exit, will Scotland force a Scottish referendum (and what happens if Britain tries to prevent it, what happens if the referendum succeeds, will the EU accept an independent Scotland back into the EU or will they punish it to appease EU members fearing similar fragmentation), will UK-based international companies pivot to adjust to the new situation or will they relocate to stay in the EU, etc etc.

These are all detailed questions with answers that are very difficult to predict. But the two predictions that have been evident from the start are: 1. Brexit will happen and 2. it's in the EU's best interests to make the experience as unpleasant as possible.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#207
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be forgetting the part where the British people voted to leave the EU. A minority voted to leave the EU.

Errr, no there was a clear majority vote for leaving the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_United_Kingdom_...

Not of the total electorate almost 30% did not vote passing major constitutional changes on such a small majority is counter to all custom and practice - A local Allotment society would not pass a rule change like this.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#208
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's virtually impossible to have tight and effective immigration controls, and open EU border. Also if UK ever passes laws that allow produce with EU import restrictions to be available it will mean hard customs border too... NI is at a genuine risk of crisis, or soft Brexit.

Why are EU countries allowed to have borders but the USA cannot? Genuinely curious. On this side of the pond its double plus ungood badthink to support borders of any sort, which makes discussion about the importance of borders in UK/EU sound really weird on this side of the pond.

> Why are EU countries allowed to have borders but the USA cannot?

The USA has always had borders, and absolutely is allowed to have them.

> On this side of the pond its double plus ungood badthink to support borders of any sort

No, it's not. It's just one set of extremists as to what the rules should be at the border portrays any disagreement with them as being opposed to borders (the same group does the same kind of generalization on other issues as well) to avoid engaging in debate about the substance of their proposals on the rules. There's a very small minority of actual open borders supporters, and except for the one group that rhetoricallt conflates that small group with their larger opponents, they basically are irrelevant in policy debate.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#209
My theory on brexit has been for a long time now that, after entangling the EU with the Euro, and globalization actually hurting the first-world EU, the UK is simply attempting to isolate it's vulnerabilities to the coming impacts of globalization.

If my theory is true, it means essentially that brexit is designed not to create wealth in the UK, but to make the losses less than the rest of the world by comparison.

With such a large surveillance state though, and a massive propaganda operation wing, the UK has done a good job confusing it's people into the core reasons because to admit them would be to admit the weaknesses of the global monetary system it has had a large part in fostering on the world through the IMF, the World Bank, and fiat, fractional reserve central banking systems not tied to gold or oil (bretton woods without the key things that made bretton woods good).

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#210
post #5

Are British HN'ers taking any mitigating steps due to this whole situation? I'm currently in the process of incorporating in the Netherlands, and it turns out setting up a Ltd is a lot more expensive over there than in the UK. I just don't feel that the UK will make good use of my tax receipts any more, so I'm almost obligated to take my work elsewhere.

Look at Cyprus. Bit more expensive in setting up. Stupidly cost effective at running and taxation, especially when not tax resident.
Post reply on HN