Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 649 posts

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#191

Post by OJFord »

lhopki01 wrote: post #161
OJFord wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would this be the same EU that wasn't founded for another 13 years? Yes; the same one, too, that grew out of the EEC founded 35 years prior.

So your argument is that the Economic body that was the EEC was supposed to help the UK fight a war half a world away because.....reasons?

I haven't said anything of the sort; I don't have enough knowledge of the period to comfortably comment on it.

I only commented above to explain why, it seemed, you were disagreeing on whether the multi-European-country group existed before the Falklands conflict.

Highlighting the Economic in EEC hardly seems relevant either, seeing as the EU is basically just MaastrichtTreaty(EEC) - a treaty which insofar I'm aware makes no mention of supporting member states' wars, "because.....reasons" or otherwise.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#192

Post by chimprich »

mattmanser wrote: post #145
dustinmoris wrote: post #51

I'm a bit tired of reading doomsday messages by now. I am an European living and working in the UK and even though this affects me I have no reason to believe that things will go downwards now. If there's anything I've learned so far then that every analysis I've read couldn't have been more wrong. It almost seems like the more the UK economy doesn't collapse the more people shout even louder how bad the Brexit is. M…

It doesn't help the EU is acting like a petulant wronged partner. We didn't even cheat on you! I mean, seriously, £68 billion for stuff we're not going to be able to use? Grow up and rework your budget. No trade negotiations until we leave? It makes them look like utter fools, one dose of actual democracy deciding they've had enough of backdoor federalisation and they're threatening every punishment they can think of…

Petulant? It is your comment that seems quite emotional; "Grow up", "utter fools", etc. It is entirely rational for the EU to try to get the best possible deal they can.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#193

Post by mpweiher »

barking wrote: post #82

This story is going to get very boring very quickly. Little will be decided until close to the deadline in two years. In the meantime life will go on as normal as it has for the last year. What is much more interesting is what will happen shortly in France and whether the phenomena that led to Trump and Brexit are repeated elsewhere in Europe.

So far it's looking good. Wilders did not make significant headway in NL, AfD is down significantly in the polls in Germany and the EU politician who returned to head the SPD in Germany has dramatically reversed that party's flagging poll numbers.

Opinion polling for the expected 2nd round of polling in the French presidential elections put Macron at almost 2/3rd majority vs. Le Pen.

Overall, pro-EU sentiment in EU member nations is rising.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#194

Post by adnam »

poooogles wrote: post #186
adnam wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr, no there was a clear majority vote for leaving the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_United_Kingdom_...

With 72% turnout. I'm highlighting how stupid the idea that this is the will of the people is in reality.

Of course it was the will of the people. Those who didn't bother to cast their vote didn't get a say.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#195

Post by pimterry »

dmix wrote: post #134
dustinmoris wrote: post #51

I'm a bit tired of reading doomsday messages by now. I am an European living and working in the UK and even though this affects me I have no reason to believe that things will go downwards now. If there's anything I've learned so far then that every analysis I've read couldn't have been more wrong. It almost seems like the more the UK economy doesn't collapse the more people shout even louder how bad the Brexit is. M…

The risks are really only economic. And those can be solved with trade pacts... without having to sacrifice any other independence such as with laws, courts, and borders. I'm from Canada and our economy (and defence) depends heavily on the US, we both strongly benefit from an economic relationship. It's mutually beneficial, as all pacts should be. Yet we don't have to worry about policy being dictated out of NAFTA or…

> Those [risks] can be solved with trade pacts without having to sacrifice any other independence such as with laws, courts, and borders.

> I'm from Canada

Er, didn't Canada just sign a trade pact with the EU which does sacrifice some of the independence of their borders, laws and courts? CETA will:

* Create a new 'investment court system', where investors from the EU can challenge and block Canadian state decisions.

* Require Canada to legally protect various EU products.

* Require Canada to make it easier for staff to move between the EU and Canada.

* Require Canada to strengthen its copyright protection and IP laws, and the border systems required to enforce those.

(Plus a bunch of similar things in the other direction too).

Fairly readable summary here: http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/ceta-explaine...

Many people would argue that NAFTA had similar effects on Canada too: http://prudentpress.com/trade/free-trade-costs-canada-sovere...

This is all a good thing nonetheless. Trade deals generally bring a lot of wealth and other benefits to both sides. Still, it's definitely not historically the case that you can get the benefits of free trade without sacrificing some independence.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#196

Post by k__ »

poooogles wrote: post #162
k__ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, didn't know that :)

Look into the Crown estate if you're interested, that's how they make a lot of their money, with any profits going back to the treasury AFAIK.

Shouldn't this estate make the same money even without them spending money on this extravagant lifestyle?

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#197

Post by omurphyevans »

coldtea wrote: post #93

> As Article 50 is triggered today, many European expats in Britain, as well as European-minded locals, are packing up, moving on or eyeing up their options. Brexit brain drain could spell disaster for industries like technology already facing shortages of skilled talent. Sorry, what about the brain drain when those "European expats" came from their countries into the UK? Or that doesn't matter because it was all "wi…

What about the brains who never moved now moving away?

I am British and have lived here for nearly 40 years. I'm currently looking at an Irish passport (Irish wife) or maybe France. My taxes and know how will be better put to use somewhere our values (openness, tolerance, mutual respect) agree.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#198

Post by mrcarrot »

cmdkeen wrote: post #173
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't been affected by the changes because nothing has happened yet. This is the start of the negotiations to decide what those changes will be. And when I say nothing has happened yet, I mean apart from the massive drop in the value of sterling and inflation massively outstripping wage increases. I assume you're based in London, which means you're fairly isolated from the social changes that have happened acro…

Except "the experts" were predicting terrible things immediately, not later on - remember the punishment budget necessity? Inflation "massively outstripping wages" is just over the Bank of England's target, the one it has been massively under for the past 5 years. The drop in sterling doesn't lead to sustained inflationary pressure. Wages are also picking up as well, though not in the public sector. The "massive incr…

Surely "experts" were predicting things would change immediately _after the UK leaves the EU_. Which as the GP said, hasn't happened yet.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#199

Post by krona »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #144
krona wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which will include higher prices Interesting. I was in a UK supermarket the other day and the asparagus on offer was from Spain and Mexico. The Mexican variety was cheaper, and just as good. Currently, Mexico pays a 14.4% common external tariff on this product, and it's still cheaper than what the EU (with it's massive array of agricultural subsidy) can produce. I imagine this is just the tip of the iceberg.

That may be because the minimum wages are massively different for the two countries, with $0.48/hr in Mexico vs $4.98/hr in Spain[1]. Globalism does exploit the lower standard of living of other countries, after all. That means that even though there are massive tariffs, these "third world" countries can still make a profit because of the abysmal quality of life for its citizens. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis…

Of course it's because of wages! The point is, it is because of protectionism that Mexican and African farmers cant sell their products in to the EU at a fair price, and once outside the customs union, the poorest consumers in the UK and the poorest farmers in the world both stand to benefit. Global trade is lifting billions of the poorest people out of poverty, and long may it continue.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#200

Post by sammorrowdrums »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #179
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's virtually impossible to have tight and effective immigration controls, and open EU border. Also if UK ever passes laws that allow produce with EU import restrictions to be available it will mean hard customs border too... NI is at a genuine risk of crisis, or soft Brexit.

>> NI is at a genuine risk of crisis, or soft Brexit. To be fair, we are in crisis 90% of the time. This just adds fuel to the fire.

At least the assembly is working well... :-O
Post reply on HN