A lawsuit over Costco golf balls • Hacker News Board

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#21

Post by acomjean » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:20 AM UTC

metaphor wrote: post #10

tedunangst wrote: post #7

I would have appreciated some more information about these patents. Like instead of telling me the lawsuit is all hot air, show me? I feel they deliberately omitted any facts which might allow me to form any opinion other than the one I'm supposed to have. (I'm happy to believe the lawsuit is bullshit, but not based on nothing but say so.)

The following patent numbers cited in this[1]: 6994638 8123632 8444507 9320944 8025593 8257201 7331878 6358161 7887439 7641572 7163472 [1] http://golf-patents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20170317-...

Great document:

Costco goes through every single patent claim and say, Nope we don't do that. Then ask for money for their lawyers.

> an award to Costco of its reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 285 or as otherwise permitted by law;

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#22

Post by tbabb » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:24 AM UTC

finaliteration wrote: post #3

Ironically, anti-competitive moves like this are only going to accelerate the game of golf's steady decline[0]. I get needing to protect your market as a large player, but when you are the main player and your product is too expensive to buy and the perception is growing that the sport you specialize in is a waste of time and money, what good does it do to push out someone making a cheaper product that may allow begi…

Whether that's true or not, I don't think it's enough to rely on the invisible hand to squelch this practice. The truth is, as long as it is advantageous to sue frivolously, companies will do it. And this is bad for the free market, the economy, and consumers.

Policy change should make it much more costly to launch a frivolous lawsuit (as distinct from a claim made in good faith), e.g. by making it much easier for a bullied defendant to counter-sue and win significant damages.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#23

Post by vhold » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:25 AM UTC

finaliteration wrote: post #3

Ironically, anti-competitive moves like this are only going to accelerate the game of golf's steady decline[0]. I get needing to protect your market as a large player, but when you are the main player and your product is too expensive to buy and the perception is growing that the sport you specialize in is a waste of time and money, what good does it do to push out someone making a cheaper product that may allow begi…

The fact there is a high barrier of entry might be one of the only appeals golf has at all? Playing it is a status symbol. Although, I think maybe that elite status symbols themselves may be on a downswing, maybe because of the growing awareness of wealth inequality?

Super rich people used to ride around in stretch limos and people found it interesting and exciting, now there's a growing perception that's disgusting and super rich people tend to visibly travel in much more inconspicuous vehicles (which are taking them to their private jets).

Just a random thought..

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#24

Post by an_account » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:27 AM UTC

saidajigumi wrote: post #6

xupybd wrote: post #2

This shows everything wrong with IP today. There should be no place for legal bullying. Especially when it's as simple as crushing competitors under litigation costs.

Especially the cynical practice of filing known-baseless patent suits as described in the article. That behavior should get the company heavily fined, and land the responsible corporate actors in prison.

Prison seems fairly harsh. There are legitimate disagreements about what a patent covers, and to throw someone in prison over that would be ridiculous.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#25

Post by astrodust » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:28 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #2

This shows everything wrong with IP today. There should be no place for legal bullying. Especially when it's as simple as crushing competitors under litigation costs.

Loser pays makes filing these absurd cases a lot more expensive. If it's destined to lose and it's guaranteed to be paid, finding a lawyer is going to take it on is going to be really easy.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#26

Post by astrodust » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:28 AM UTC

cissou wrote: post #4

I don't understand how "“We laughed when we got the lawsuit. We knew we made it.”" and "his company settled the 2015 claims with Acushnet by agreeing to get out of the golf-ball business altogether; it received no payment from Acushnet, nor did it pay." are compatible statements.

There's such a thing as funny-sad.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#27

Post by setr » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:33 AM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #20

metaphor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following patent numbers cited in this[1]: 6994638 8123632 8444507 9320944 8025593 8257201 7331878 6358161 7887439 7641572 7163472 [1] http://golf-patents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20170317-...

> because, at the least, dimples on the KS golf ball do not cover more than 80% of the outer surface. Haha. Do I believe that? Even the legal filing is short on facts, just assertions. Like who counted the dimples and how many are there in reality? Thanks for the link. I think I fall somewhere between "willing to believe what I'm told" and "willing to do extensive research". "Willing to not particularly care" is abou…

>Like who counted the dimples and how many are there in reality?

Assuming the dimples and placement of them is uniform across the ball, and across all manufactured balls,

Then it shouls be pretty simple to get the size of a ball, the size of a dimple, and the spacing between two dimples, and then extrapolate the actual coverage

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#28

Post by sk5t » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:34 AM UTC

gthtjtkt wrote: post #9

> Companies with deep pockets lock down the market by making it too expensive for competitors to operate and to offer lower-priced yet quality products. It is a legitimate tactic; even those who succumb to it don’t really begrudge the approach. Who the hell wrote this article, the CEO of Acushnet? "Don't get the wrong idea, small businesses love being sued over frivolous patents they never infringed upon!"

"Ho hum, we've been driven out of business by legal maneuvering, but it's all in good sport."

You don't often see such a laissez-faire attitude towards one's livelihood amongst small businesses.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#29

Post by xupybd » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:35 AM UTC

an_account wrote: post #24

saidajigumi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially the cynical practice of filing known-baseless patent suits as described in the article. That behavior should get the company heavily fined, and land the responsible corporate actors in prison.

Prison seems fairly harsh. There are legitimate disagreements about what a patent covers, and to throw someone in prison over that would be ridiculous.

I'd agree with this. But maybe some kind of restriction on asserting patent claims when organisations repetitively make claims that don't stand up. Something to penalise this behaviour.

Re: A lawsuit over Costco golf balls

#30

Post by ethbro » Tue, Mar 28, 2017, 3:36 AM UTC

tbabb wrote: post #22

finaliteration wrote: post #3

Ironically, anti-competitive moves like this are only going to accelerate the game of golf's steady decline[0]. I get needing to protect your market as a large player, but when you are the main player and your product is too expensive to buy and the perception is growing that the sport you specialize in is a waste of time and money, what good does it do to push out someone making a cheaper product that may allow begi…

Whether that's true or not, I don't think it's enough to rely on the invisible hand to squelch this practice. The truth is, as long as it is advantageous to sue frivolously, companies will do it. And this is bad for the free market, the economy, and consumers. Policy change should make it much more costly to launch a frivolous lawsuit (as distinct from a claim made in good faith), e.g. by making it much easier for a…

Similar to the email spam proposals, charge a modest fee for each motion filed.

Set it at a point that isn't a barrier for anyone filing a "normal" amount of motions, but where it increases to real money if your main business is filing large amounts of know-it-will-fail paperwork.