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Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

crainsnewyork.com

71–80 of 312 posts

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#71

Question: Why didn't the guy just pack up the crane and take it elsewhere? The issues that make tower cranes unsafe and expensive aren't unique to New York City, and if Austin, TX was any indication, there has been a shortage of cranes due to construction activity worldwide. Is there something about the economics or the licensing that makes this crane only work in New York City?

He still works as a crane operator in NYC and likely knows (only) that market.

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#72

The first subway in New York City cost about $100 million per kilometer in 1900 (adjusted for inflation of course). The new subway line being opened this year cost $2.2 billion per kilometer. This is despite over a century of improvements in technology. Here's an interesting HN post, "Forty Percent of the Buildings in Manhattan Could Not Be Built Today" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11736696 In that article is…

A big difference in subway costs is that subways used to be built by closing roadways and digging from above ("cut and cover"). But now it's almost always done by very slow, very expensive to operate underground boring machines.

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#74
post #66
post #40

> The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 14-14B lays out the wage floor for its operators at $73.91 per hour. That’s $150,000 a year before overtime, plus benefits equal to $32.50 an hour. When the operator is behind the controls of a tower crane, he gets a $2-an-hour bump. On weekends, when cranes are moved, pay doubles. With overtime, many union members earn half a million dollars a year. And they don…

It'd should be a undocumented person getting paid 6.50 an hour. Looks ripe for some disruption eh? Send in the VC money and sociopaths! Whatever the market will bear!

Perhaps there's a middle ground.

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#75
post #73

This machine seems brilliant. Those super tower cranes are legit massacre machines. Seeing one of those cranes go down was disturbing

I definitely feel a bit nervous whenever I walk under one of those on a windy day on NYC. This article did little to assuage my fears.

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#76

This is sort of like how when the waterless urinal was first commercialized, the plumbers union blocked it from getting approved in the general building code. Eventually a compromised was reached that involves requiring a plumber to draw an water line (unutilized) to every water-less install. Unions for skilled, high-pay jobs in highly regulated industries really extract a lot of questionable value from society.

And when people advocate for programmers unionizing, I don't see why we'd be any different. There'd be people employed doing X, a programmer would make something to automate X, and "our" union would be trying to save their job.

Just throwing in another reason why programmer unions don't make a lot of sense: licensing.

It makes sense to license electricians, crane operators, doctors, lawyers, and many other professions who do safety-critical work.

Only a very small minority of programmers work on software that could actually hurt someone (at Boeing, Toyota, etc...).

There's no reason to create a legal barrier to entry for programming.

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#77
post #25

The New York Department of Buildings response to this article (June 2016) : Skypicker presented the department with plans for a small, truck-mounted crane... However, when we inspected the Skypicker in use at a construction site, we found something significantly different: The crane was attached to a building slab, and appeared to be a hodgepodge of parts from other cranes, mounted on a homemade, untested base. http:…

True, but remember this is New York City. In the original article, when the crane was first used on jobs and word got around about it being less expensive and required fewer operator man hours, his job sites were picketed by unions. There were anonymous calls to 311 reporting violations but when the inspectors got there, they didn't find anything wrong. In my mind, I'm skeptical and it could have been the cranes or i…

It's the unions.

On my way to work, I pass by a giant inflatable rat inflated by a gas motor that's hauled around by a truck. It's rather annoying when its tail gets loose and covers the sidewalk, as can happen on windy days when it's not tied down appropriately. It's probably 10 or 12 feet tall, at least, and the tail is maybe 12 feet long or longer. (3 feet is about one meter for those in metric land).

It's parked there because one of the buildings under construction here didn't use the right amount of union labor, so there's always a rat present. Walk around and you'll see this same rat in different places; they've got a number of them. They've also got some rather impressive pigs and fat cats.

This is the city that couldn't get rid of two operators per train on the L, even though technically they could more or less get by with zero (the trains mostly drive themselves on that line; the operator, to my understanding, just has to keep acknowledging that the train should proceed).

Why?

The unions protested and won, citing hitherto unknown safety reasons that should be plaguing cities like Madrid, Barcelona, London, Paris, Washington D.C., etc. due to their lack of two people. Doubly so for those lines (including the AirTrain to JFK in NYC) that do not have operators at all...

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but remember this is New York City. In the original article, when the crane was first used on jobs and word got around about it being less expensive and required fewer operator man hours, his job sites were picketed by unions. There were anonymous calls to 311 reporting violations but when the inspectors got there, they didn't find anything wrong. In my mind, I'm skeptical and it could have been the cranes or i…

It's the unions. On my way to work, I pass by a giant inflatable rat inflated by a gas motor that's hauled around by a truck. It's rather annoying when its tail gets loose and covers the sidewalk, as can happen on windy days when it's not tied down appropriately. It's probably 10 or 12 feet tall, at least, and the tail is maybe 12 feet long or longer. (3 feet is about one meter for those in metric land). It's parked…

Here's what Scabby The Rat looks like, for those who are unfamiliar: http://www.bigskyballoons.com/ratpack.html

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#79
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very important to be able to let people make these decisions. It's inefficient to add a water line if it's never going to be used. You might believe I'm going to use it, but I might know I'm not going to use it. Maybe you're right, but I am the one paying the bill to tear off finishings to run water lines in the walls.

Kiiiinnnnda. People make bad decisions, and the only architecture that matters is the one that lets you change. It's like the dig-once fiber policy for roadways, and is all part of the "don't build to peak value" idea; it's also like a usual problem with user interface design: if you only ever built user tools to do what you imagined, users (or later owners / tenants) are limited to your imagination. I go to a gym in…

> Kiiiinnnnda. People make bad decisions

You can't outlaw bad decisions - but it seems that some people will never get tired of trying...

Re: Why is this little construction crane illegal in New York City? (2016)

#80
post #21

This is sort of like how when the waterless urinal was first commercialized, the plumbers union blocked it from getting approved in the general building code. Eventually a compromised was reached that involves requiring a plumber to draw an water line (unutilized) to every water-less install. Unions for skilled, high-pay jobs in highly regulated industries really extract a lot of questionable value from society.

waterless ones are patented and without a water line you'd be locked in to higher priced products and/or have to spend a lot of extra money to run a new water line after the walls go up. Generally the situation with waterless ones is people endlessly social signal their green superiority about them, then the incredible stench makes them install real urinals. Even if only 5% or so install real urinals the net cost is…

What about the flip side of it - someone wants to put in a few waterless urinals someplace where they can't run water line, and the alternative is no urinals at all? You've literally outlawed a portion of the utility of the invention.
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