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Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

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Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#241

Post by mintplant »

aori wrote: post #127
jrkatz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'outrage crowd'. Huh. right now, the big blowup is over some guy ('jontron') spouting racist BS. This is bad enough in front of an adult audience, but in fact he is performing this for children. Shouldn't we be mad? For PewDiePie recently, the same story: He is an adult (who should know better) performing antisemitic jokes for children, who might not follow the joke were it funny. When they don't follow it, when it's…

I've read a few of the articles but couldn't find any compelling reason to be outraged. I certainly disagree with his suggestions about the police but I'm assuming all his racist facts he quoted from some major source. It is true that assimilation is a problem and that years ago some did talk about a Reconquista. Just because some people talk or think about it doesn't mean it's a legitimate concern but it's not exact…

Destiny: So you don't want people to immigrate and change the "white European culture". Okay, what if you had some brown people who moved here and perfectly assimilated and embraced the culture, why does it matter if they're white or brown?

JonTron: It would be great if they assimilated... but then... eventually they'd enter the gene pool.

--

JonTron: Wealthy blacks also commit more crime than poor whites, that's a fact. Yeah, look it up.

[He provided no source for this, and I can't find anything to back it up.]

--

JonTron: These are just slurs: white supremacist, racist.

--

JonTron: We've gotten rid of discrimination in our Western countries. If you don't think we've gotten rid of discrimination, you're living in a fantasy land... Get outta here with that. People like me are supposed to listen to people like you chatter on about this oppression in America, it doesn't exist, dude, it doesn't exist. What do you want to do, police people's thoughts?

--

He also endorsed Rep. Steve King's recent tweet that "culture and demographics are our destiny. We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies", writing: "Wow, how scandalous, Steve King doesn't want his country invaded by people who have contempt for his culture and people! NAZI!!!"

I write this as someone who's been a fan for years and is very disappointed by this turn of events.

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#242

Post by fixermark »

It feels like Slowbeef's take on this is pretty solid, but the takeaway from him seems, interestingly, to be "Hey, this is harder than people think," and not "It's no surprise people burn out or get hit with a huge scandal doing this; this entertainment channel is now oversaturated with amateur content and it's a sucker's game to play without a lot of investment."

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#243

Post by jimmyk »

watwut wrote: post #225
jimmyk wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you convince children that it is right to attack members of race x, then other kids of race x will end up attacked. OK, but we're not discussing a scenario in which stormfront members have total control over what the children are exposed to. We're discussing a scenario where they have at most a few minutes of the child's attention. For the other fifteen and three quarters waking hours of the child's day, their att…

1.) Teachers spend most of schoolday not discussing racism. They discuss (and should discuss) math, physics, languages, writing, planets, birds and what not. The things the school is for. When the school has to spend more then a little time on societal issues like this, then something went wrong. Stormfront if they stand just out of school as op proposed, can have quite a lot of time with children. (They play freely…

Teachers spend most of schoolday not discussing racism.

OK, but we're still not talking about a remotely even amount of time. Not to mention that teachers are authority figures, have an extremely captive audience, can punish incorrect opinions, and have near total control over the material children are exposed to during the school day.

They make people feel sense of community, common enemy (!), purpose and feeling of strength. I think that they are immoral and wrong, but that does not mean I am going to deny emotional appeal it has especially on young.

So then you believe there is a defect in humans which results in them having a natural susceptibility to these ideas in particular, and as children humans need to be carefully insulated from these ideas or it will be very difficult for them to reason their way to other ideas as adults. Is that a universal human defect, or one that is found particularly in some class of human?

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#244

Post by x0x0 »

fixermark wrote: post #232
Bartweiss wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the other side, if you're someone who gets raised to a public personality for your liveliness and lack of filter, you're likely to step over the line eventually. One of the best points I've seen was that Youtubers have a lot in common with talk radio hosts. When Howard Stern said something offensive, it was a bit rich to act surprised. He was paid to be shocking, he did better the harder he pushed on the edge…

Howard Stern is an excellent example, particularly because you won't find him on most heavily-regulated media.

Howard Stern is a terrible example: his advertisers knew exactly what they were getting.

PDP, unless he's stupid, should have known what DISNEY wanted. And it's not anti-semitic jokes, particularly following repeated use of Nazi iconography in his videos.

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#245

Post by fixermark »

542458 wrote: post #24
minimaxir wrote: post #13

It's worth nothing that this article was posted a month ago: since then, there was another incident along the same lines where popular YouTuber JonTron imploded for the same reasons as described in the article. Jim Sterling has the most objective take on the sequence of events: http://www.thejimquisition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-th...

That hadn't occurred to me before, but I think you're right in that JonTron's situation is roughly comparable to the second half of OP's article. Any real publicist would have advised him that doing that debate was a bad idea or at least would have prepped him for it, but it doesn't look like he got any such advice (or if he did he didn't listen to it). There's probably a point to be made that a real publicist would…

I don't get the sense PDP is particularly maliciously racist, but he has the kind of insensitivity to racism one gets when it hasn't hit one directly.

For, I think, understandable reasons, a lot of people consider that a difference without distinction.

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#246

Post by [deleted] »

fwn wrote: post #197
crooked-v wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that surprising that Disney thought that using "death to all Jews" in a joke, regardless of context, was inappropriate?

"regardless of context" does not even exist. Your comment featured it and I don't think it's an inappropriate comment you made here.

[deleted]

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#247

Post by fixermark »

m3ta wrote: post #234
minimaxir wrote: post #13

It's worth nothing that this article was posted a month ago: since then, there was another incident along the same lines where popular YouTuber JonTron imploded for the same reasons as described in the article. Jim Sterling has the most objective take on the sequence of events: http://www.thejimquisition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-th...

It seems like the definition of "imploded" in the context of JonTron and Pewdiepie is "lost an insignificant and negligible amount of subscribers".

In the context of Pewdiepie it was "Lost the Disney and YouTube preferred deals."

Value per subscriber goes way down when you're no longer on the critical path for ad monetization.

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#248

Post by [deleted] »

m3ta wrote: post #234
minimaxir wrote: post #13

It's worth nothing that this article was posted a month ago: since then, there was another incident along the same lines where popular YouTuber JonTron imploded for the same reasons as described in the article. Jim Sterling has the most objective take on the sequence of events: http://www.thejimquisition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-th...

It seems like the definition of "imploded" in the context of JonTron and Pewdiepie is "lost an insignificant and negligible amount of subscribers".

[deleted]

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#249

Post by x0x0 »

white-flame wrote: post #122
geofft wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the power of hordes of folks to try to make their views the predominant one is nothing other than a cynical phrasing of democracy, right? What is political freedom, if not the ability to work with like-minded others to advocate for or against a viewpoint? Should we censor people who wish to engage in this right? And I am confused how anyone here was silenced. This person's views, and the views of everyon…

There's a difference in airing grievances, political opinion, public discourse, etc, and the lynching of people outside your view with a specific intent of silencing and destroying their very lives. This vindictiveness is explicit and widespread. The very notion of "I disagree with you (and will bring it to light) but will defend your right to say it" seems to be dead in modern outrage culture.

No, your problem specifically is you support PDP's right to air anti-semitic jokes following repeated use of nazi iconography, and further, don't believe I or others have a right to react in any way beyond your preferred way.

PDP: HA HA HA dead jews

His advertisers and many audience members: Not cool

white-flame: But my free speech!

PDP remains free to make any jokes he desires; he's just not free to continue to get his preferred advertising revenue or outlets.

Re: Reasons YouTubers keep imploding, from a YouTuber

#250

Post by Ralfp »

throwaway9475 wrote: post #195
Karunamon wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were literally all it was about, nobody would have reason to complain. Instead, the concept has expanded out to encompass political views which can be debated in good faith. Supporting certain candidates has resulted in public shaming, if not outright violence. Do our college students really need to be kept "safe" from mere disagreement?

When "mere disagreement" is something like "I don't think you should have the same rights as me because your sexuality/gender/class/religion is different" then, uh, yes. E.g., depriving LGBTQ people marriage because of your "religious" beliefs is not a political view. This can be hard to understand if you come from a position where you've never had to deal with any issues like that. But for people in those groups, it…

> When "mere disagreement" is something like "I don't think you should have the same rights as me because your sexuality/gender/class/religion is different" then, uh, yes.

Part of maturing is learning how to stand for one's ideas and beliefs, as well as learning how to deal with (bigoted) opposition to those. Isolating yourself, locking yourself in the echo chamber will make you unprepared for dialogue with those outside of it, or worse, will end with you radicalizing because you'll grow up with your standing never contested.

This is also going the other way. If you'll remove yourself from discourse, you will willfully marginalize yourself. How can local population know that LGBT people are living among them and are their friends/relatives/normal folk, if those people will lock themselves up in their safe spaces?

My favorite example when it comes to LGBT is polish activist turned politician, [Robert Biedroń](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Biedro%C5%84), who has spent life being vocal and visible activist for LGBT rights - extremely courageous feat in mostly catholic and conservatist Poland. The culmination of his work was gaining enough popular support to become mayor in 100k large city.

If this guy ran in my city, he'll get my vote. Even if I disagree with 90% of what he says because politically he always aligns himself with socialists and I'm moderate, I believe that what he does for making our society less bigoted is worth every support.

Now ask yourself, how many such Biedrońs will not come to be because they'll close themselves in their small worlds in fear of their feelings being hurt by some bigots?

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