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DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

#111

Post by k-mcgrady »

javiermaestro wrote: post #103
k-mcgrady wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But in the UK, it's sadly the opposite. Any data to back this up? Personally I find it a pretty rare sight to see windows that aren't double glazed and if I came across a property without them it's absurd enough I wouldn't move into it.

Sure, it's annecdata... but just come to London. All of the old housing from the 70s or before (most of Z1-Z2) is single pane. Also, go search in Zoopla for double-glazing... landlords mark it as an extra for a reason (unless it's a new development, in which case it will be double glazing). Well, I've talked to people and been to quite a few places in the UK, Scotland, etc. I know many people living in London, the UK…

Interesting. Maybe it depends on where the property is located within the UK. There was a big double glazing push in Northern Ireland in the 90's and I can't remember the last time I was in a property without it. I've rented in London (Z2) a few times and haven't come across an issue yet but I may have been getting lucky. The different heating requirements between Southern UK and Northern are pretty astounding so that might have something to do with it. I haven't used the heating in my London flat in about 4 weeks now and throughout the winter 4 hours a day was plenty. In NI I would have been using it for another couple of months at least and almost constant during winter.

Re: DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

#112

Post by _800MHz_ »

DataDisciple wrote: post #97
kaino128 wrote: post #8

I don't know much about electric grid engineering - are there opportunities for a ML approach to increase efficiency in ways other than the sort of better supply forecasting implied by this article. The article does mention the losses involved in long distance transmission, but surely traditional approaches can already yield fairly well optimised planning for improving this sort of efficiency? (Finally, this article…

DM is far from the first company to provide ML solutions to revolutionize utilities. There are so many opportunities to increase the efficiency of our electric networks. Forecasting demand is not something they do well, but more importantly they could improve Demand Response and Energy Efficiency programs. Oh, and most of the techniques they use to prevent and stop theft are a joke (that's a $6B/yr problem in the US)…

"Forecasting demand is not something they do well, but more importantly they could improve Demand Response and Energy Efficiency programs."

- Source?

"The utilities have not been forced to innovate. They won't innovate on their own because there are no customers at risk - no competition."

- Also, what data can you provide to back this up? I work in the industry, and I can tell you that innovation will depend largely on the type of energy market that the utility operates in, whether or not they are a vertically integrated company, regulated or unregulated, IOU or POU, as well as a ton of other variables. So while maybe its true that not every single company is innovating, to generally say that they "won't innovate" or that there is "no competition" is simply wrong as well as spreading incorrect information about the industry.

I'd check out this is you're interested in learning more about the utility industry: https://www.osti.gov/scitech/biblio/15001013

Re: DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

#113

Post by grandalf »

_800MHz_ wrote: post #109
grandalf wrote: post #48

Predicting peaks in supply and demand for energy is essentially turning the utility into a hedge fund. I think it's worth considering the overall characteristics of the "improved" algorithm, since the ML optimizations are likely analogous to leveraging based on an overfitted predictive model, and the objective of a power grid is resilience as well as efficiency. Also, depending on how you define efficiency, it may be…

I work in the industry and we've been "predicting peaks in supply and demand for energy" for years. You're 100% correct about the "resilience" and "efficiency" part, and we currently have software for that as well (Google "Real-Time Contingency Analysis"), but the real improvements to be made in this area would be things that generally fall under the "smart grid" buzzword. The ability to automatically switch transmis…

Very interesting! Thanks for the clarification. Would you say that the ML/AI aspect is "easy" once the automation is built? Or does the automation offer limited value without fairly sophisticated algorithms?

Re: DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

#114

Post by Neil44 »

javiermaestro wrote: post #107
Neil44 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 'Most' is a huge overstatement, the last house I lived in without it was a student dive in 1996.

Really? Check this: https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pdf/rpts/countryfactfile20... Page 3, Summary: Around 83% of homes in each country have some double glazing. Northern Ireland has a higher percentage of homes which are fully double glazed, 62%, compared with 32-44% in the other countries. So, ~60% of the houses are NOT fully double-glazed. In 2007. Srsly. And sure, it's from 2007... but I highly doubt the situati…

Why would you doubt the situation has changed? Also, not fully double glazed would cover my current house which has one single glazed tiny bathroom window with an extractor fan in it.

Re: DeepMind in “very early stage” talks with National Grid to reduce UK energy use

#115

Post by grey-area »

javiermaestro wrote: post #101
grey-area wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most wooden sash (I assume you're talking about wooden sash) were properly fitted at the time, but are victorian or edwardian and therefore over 100 years old. They've done pretty well considering their heritage. New wooden sash with double glazing are better IMO than plastic windows - as the parent noted, plastic doesn't do well long term when exposed to light.

So then, we all agree that the old (ancient) and unmaintained wood frames in the UK are crap. Cool! :) Really, I couldn't care less if they replaced the frames with wood or whatever, as long as they made sure that they were thermally good and avoid wasting all of the heat...

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