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Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

economist.com

131–140 of 204 posts

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#131
Friends in the pharma and medical device development industry have told me that the business case for any drug or medical device is built on top of US sales at currently inflated US prices.

According to them, the other developed countries that have negotiated lower rates for drugs serve a different purpose. Those countries have lower requirements around testing of drugs and medical devices, and they are able to move to human trials and market sooner there. The trade-off for those countries is slightly higher risk of sub-optimal outcomes, but this appears to be more accepted by the populations of those countries than it is by Americans.

I'm not writing this to vouch for this setup - it seems like it is pretty unbalanced and ultimately does a lot of harm to people in the US due to drug inaccessibility - but I thought I'd share it for another perspective.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#132
post #122
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing budgets pay for themselves. Why else would you market something?

Customers pay for marketing budgets in the end - that by itself is a big contributor to higher US drug costs.

Pricing in the US is not cost-based. That's not how it works.

If you price a drug at $100, you can't raise it to $110 to pay for marketing.

You set the price at $100, then decide what to do with the profit. If marketing costs $10, but increases your sales by 15%, then you have a positive ROI.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#133
My father recently passed, and a month or so afterwards we got a bill from the nursing home pharmacy who, apparently, couldn't figure out how to bill his insurance.

The price for 30 atorvastatin, whose out-of-pocket cost is about $20, was $160. The same with other cheap generic heart medications.

Complaining about high drug costs is a red herring. Drug prices are a small fraction of healthcare costs, and even if new drugs were made cheap, healthcare providers would still overcharge for them.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#135
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of problems with reference pricing. First off, if country A (300M people) references country B (30M people), then the drug company can simply chose not to launch the drug in country B if that reference price is too low. Second, drug companies can modify their launch sequence (this already happens today) so that they launch in the referenced countries after the price is set in the country doing the ref…

> Third, this may actually push up the prices in other countries. That's the whole point. As mentioned in the article, the US disproportionately funds new pharamaceutical research. Other countries currently receive the benefits of this, but at a much lower cost. So any system which reduces the prices in the US will either require other countries paying more for what they're already getting, or less research and devel…

Or that there is less profit.

I think we could have more accountable research if instead of being driven for profit it was driven as actual academic research with public domain benefit.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#137

This has a very simple fix, and is a fix that would appeal to Donald Trump: Require that pharmaceutical companies do not charge Americans any more for their drugs than what they charge any developed country. This lets other countries do the dirty work of negotiating prices while reaping the benefits for the US. In addition, it goes along with his whole America is getting screwed narrative - ie that other companies ar…

Of course there's no simple fix. US health reform has been attempted based on series of simple fixes with all the best-seeming ones already exhausted over the twenty or thirty years it's been tried. And the entities profiting (enormously) from US health care have become champions, geniuses at dodging all the simple fixes. Of course you can't force companies to sell for the same prices elsewhere unless you had no regu…

You're totally right, this is a hugely complex matter.

However, it's not so simple to just relabel the drug, after all to a first approximation a drug is primarily an active ingredient and secondarily a delivery mechanism. You can patent one, the other or both together. There's definitely remixing, reformulation etc. for patent purposes, but it's not always that trivial to do.

Re. regulatory capture, I don't know if the FDA or regulatory capture thereof is that huge an issue. The chief advantage other countries have is the ability to say, "No." Medicare doesn't have that ability, and even if we were to allow CMS (the agency that administers Medicare/Medicaid) to negotiate for drug prices, it's not much of a negotiation if CMS can't say, "we're not buying it." Can you imagine the outrage in congress from people calling in and saying, "I need this drug and Medicare isn't paying for it."? I guess that's regulatory capture in some way, but damn is it more complicated than cozy agency-industry relations.

A really great and sober take on drug pricing from someone who's been in the industry forever can be found here:

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2015/12/02/a-l...

EDIT: Typo s/companies/countries/

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#138

This has a very simple fix, and is a fix that would appeal to Donald Trump: Require that pharmaceutical companies do not charge Americans any more for their drugs than what they charge any developed country. This lets other countries do the dirty work of negotiating prices while reaping the benefits for the US. In addition, it goes along with his whole America is getting screwed narrative - ie that other companies ar…

But isn't free market, unregulated prices, etc the mandate of US? I don't judge, just making a remark.

A free market requires price discovery. That's sorely lacking for the majority of the US healthcare industry. Doesn't matter if it's a pill, a check up, or an x-ray, good luck figuring out what it's going to cost you in advance.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any private drug negotiator is going to be in a terrible position because they don't have 100% of the market. They can't walk away, Having 100% of the market is the definition of a monopsony. That's bad for both patients (in the long run) and pharmaceutical companies (in the short run). In any case, even an ostensible monopsony pharmaceutical purchaser can't really just "walk away", because so so many of the drugs…

>Having 100% of the market is the definition of a monopsony. That's bad for both patients That's how the rest of the developed world does it.

> That's how the rest of the developed world does it.

No, very few countries - even those which regulate prescription prices - have monopsony pharmecutical purchasers. Germany does not. Canada does not. The Netherlands does not. Even France does not. Technically the UK doesn't either, because each England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland are operated separately.

And as explained in the article, these systems only work because the US picks up the tab in funding research and development, even for pharmaceutical companies based in Europe. If the US weren't far and away larger than all the countries which do have monopsony purchasers, that setup wouldn't work, because nobody would be funding the development of those drugs in the first place.

Re: Why drug prices in America are so high (2016)

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third, this may actually push up the prices in other countries. That's the whole point. As mentioned in the article, the US disproportionately funds new pharamaceutical research. Other countries currently receive the benefits of this, but at a much lower cost. So any system which reduces the prices in the US will either require other countries paying more for what they're already getting, or less research and devel…

Or that there is less profit. I think we could have more accountable research if instead of being driven for profit it was driven as actual academic research with public domain benefit.

This. It's explicitly capitalistic to be against socializing risk and privatizing profits -- which the is game being played with the current setup of trying to fund drug creation via patent monopolies combined with per unit regulatory pricing games.

Academia should be the primary means of drug discovery. Drug manufacturing and distribution _should_ be a commodity business. Anything otherwise and all research on the the outcome, scale of use, and effectiveness of different drugs becomes hopelessly distorted by marketing incentives and the influence of complex dependencies from the entire rest of the healthcare service pricing model.

Measuring drug creation effectiveness by trying to maximize the number of drugs on the market is like measuring software design effectiveness by number of lines of code.

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