Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#151

Post by ivraatiems » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

throwaway_45 wrote: post #144

Why do we need to try to attract women to technical role?There are plenty of other people to fill the role. This is America they are free to go to another job if they want. I think discrimination should be harshly punished, but trying to get a certain person (color, ethnicity) into a certain role just seems anti SV.

The interview is about retaining, not attracting.

But even if it were about attracting them, your question is a non-starter, because this isn't about hiring women over and above hiring men, it's about hiring women at all and those women then staying on and not quitting due to culture issues. "This is America," so, what, we shouldn't bother picking the best candidates and retaining them? Or do you not believe there's ever cases where a woman was the best choice for a job, but she chose not to take it?

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#152

Post by Yizahi » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

DeusExMachina wrote: post #4

Am I wrong or all the issues seem to be not gender related but about management and they apply to both sexes?

You are correct. And hiring is also management responsibility (not a job maybe but they are responsible in the end). So bad hires are also management fault.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#153

Post by throwaway5492 » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

Why does this article prompt me to trust it for using WebGL? There's not a single graphic anywhere on the page! Is this some sort of browser fingerprinting or something? Just bringing it up in case it's a misconfiguration on their server.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#154

Post by amorphid » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

jmcgough wrote: post #87

amorphid wrote: post #53

Get everyone focused on thinking about the team's mission, role, and what it takes to get the job done. Drill that into everyone's head and stick to it. Let everything else go. A mentor once told me that business fundamentally revolves around making money, saving money, saving time, and making customers happier. I like thinking about work that way, as it has nothing to do with religion, sex, gender, age, height, phas…

This is the mentality that leads to drama explosions like at Uber. They were all focused on making money and building a big company. Because of this, they ignored the "little things" like building a HR department that could support women when they were put in bad situations.

My comment was a comment, not an employee handbook.

Boss: "Hey, my partner and I would love it if you'd like to join us for drinks at my place on Saturday night."

Employee (replies & CC's boss's boss): "I'm here to work, and this is making me extremely uncomfortable."

^^^ strive for that.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#155

Post by magic_beans » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

throwaway_45 wrote: post #144

Why do we need to try to attract women to technical role?There are plenty of other people to fill the role. This is America they are free to go to another job if they want. I think discrimination should be harshly punished, but trying to get a certain person (color, ethnicity) into a certain role just seems anti SV.

This article isn't about attracting women to technical roles. It's about KEEPING the female programmers you already have.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#156

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:49 PM UTC

amorphid wrote: post #154

jmcgough wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the mentality that leads to drama explosions like at Uber. They were all focused on making money and building a big company. Because of this, they ignored the "little things" like building a HR department that could support women when they were put in bad situations.

My comment was a comment, not an employee handbook. Boss: "Hey, my partner and I would love it if you'd like to join us for drinks at my place on Saturday night." Employee (replies & CC's boss's boss): "I'm here to work, and this is making me extremely uncomfortable." ^^^ strive for that.

All work and no play makes Jill and Jack dull.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#157

Post by xienze » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

spcelzrd wrote: post #104

DeusExMachina wrote: post #4

Am I wrong or all the issues seem to be not gender related but about management and they apply to both sexes?

You're wrong. Every industry has management problems. Women leave tech at a rate much higher than they leave other industries. The only conclusion is that tech is a hostile environment for women, or that women are intrinsically unable to perform in tech.

> Women leave tech at a rate much higher than they leave other industries. The only conclusion is that tech is a hostile environment for women, or that women are intrinsically unable to perform in tech.

Which is it, in the areas I listed?

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#158

Post by madsbuch » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

mememachine wrote: post #93

madsbuch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this thinking is discouraging. Bot to men but even more to women and it might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields. I think generally work places should be much more well rounded. We spend a considerable amount of time there, so why not allow it to be a place where we expand our lives instead of a place where we only "make money, save money, save time, and make customers happier"?

Many of us don't want it to be anything more than that. That's what the rest of our life is for.

That's completely fair. But my proposition was not about your preferences. I conjectured that a shift to a more whole view of employers (rather than just machines) would be beneficial for most people.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#159

Post by togoshigekata » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

How can Hospitals help retain Male Nurses? (male nurses: ~8%)

How can Schools help retain Male Teachers? (male teachers: ~20%)

How can we help Males dying on the job? (male on the job deaths: ~90%+)

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#160

Post by madsbuch » Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #132

madsbuch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this thinking is discouraging. Bot to men but even more to women and it might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields. I think generally work places should be much more well rounded. We spend a considerable amount of time there, so why not allow it to be a place where we expand our lives instead of a place where we only "make money, save money, save time, and make customers happier"?

Careful. Plenty of STEM fields have much better gender parity than tech. Tech is singularly bad among the STEM fields; only physics is competitively bad. Mathematics, molecular biology, stat --- all have strong female participation. Worth noting: all these other STEM fields are also heavily dependent on software and computer technology, and women do fine in them.

Sorry, you are completely right.