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What You Can Do About Climate Change

nytimes.com

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Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#101

Post by TeMPOraL »

nawitus wrote: post #10

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. Anyway, I sometimes think it's quite funny how my own lifestyle is so much more green than the average "green" person. I don't have children, I don't own or drive a car, I only use public transporation, 99% of which runs on electricity. I'm vegan, I haven't been on an airplane for like maybe 4 or 5 years. I live in a modern, energy efficient and small apartment. I buy…

Which is why I always prefer working on technology to working on culture. With right technological landscape, people can become "green" by just doing what they always do. Trying to change human behaviour directly is a bit like asking water to start flowing uphill on its own.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#102

Post by jcoffland »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #100
jcoffland wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's troubling that you believe your genetics are responsible for economic success and education.

IQ is strongly hereditary and is pretty well correlated with economic success, so I don't see how this is troubling...

> IQ is strongly hereditary and is pretty well correlated with economic success

Can you back up these claims? I don't think either is obviously true. IQ tests themselves have dubious value.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#103

Post by ThomPete »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #88
ThomPete wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a discussion we can have its certainly not domething i am alone of thinking nor does it warrant downvotes.

I know that sometimes I downvote as a way of saying "dude, come on, will you please just look outside yourself for one second!" Or because I'm tired and frustrated about something that means a lot to me, but somebody is approaching it in a polemical or absolute style.

Perhaps you should take a step back and reread what they actually said.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#104

Post by ThomPete »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #90
ThomPete wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other reasons why people need to drive than them working in the suburbs and globally even more reasons why biking in a city is far from enough (Just look at some Chinese cities) The thing is that if you really were to change your life for it to have an effect we wouldn't do it. Just the threat to reliable food supply is enough to make most people accept things as they are. There are two things you can…

" There are two things you can do which are the only rational things to do. " I think those are the two things that you can rationally do! But not everyone is you. I think that your focus on technical and engineering solutions is actually a "one finger points three point back" kind of situation. I think that you are probably capable in those solutions, and I encourage you to take them as strengths, not as the only so…

No i cant even do any of that and thats the point.

Instead of lulling people into the believe that human culture on its own can change things perhaps the time was better spent on the things that actually help. You havent provided anything but an emotional argument that culture can solve this, nor is there any evidence in history which points to this.

Technological progress brought us in this situation, technological progress can get us out of it.

The problem is not the individual consumer but the whole system that supports them and that wont be going anywhere as most people dont have the luxury of spending time planting or meditating.

Anecdotes on people changing is not anything but a great story. Of course people change but your argument need them to change in exactly the same way which is exactly the wrong way to understand humans. We aren't rational agents.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#105

Post by ThomPete »

Decade wrote: post #98
mnm1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Give me a 2bdm/2ba apt in Manhattan for less than $1700 and I'll give up my car completely too. You're just proving my point for me.

That over $1700 price is a negative externality of home-as-investment culture and racist downzoning. There is no natural law that says the 2 bed/2 bath apartment has to be so expensive. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/realestate/sure-build-it-... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/upshot/popping-the-housin...

Supply and demand does if the jobs are also mostly in the big cities

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#106

Post by ThomPete »

jcoffland wrote: post #99
ThomPete wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats the thing though fuel would never be regulated to cost $10k a gallon the economy would get killed along with the political careers of those who voted it through.

That's not the point. Cars are optional. The question is, is giving them up worth the cost?

Cars are not optional for most people. They dont just buy them for fun, especially not in china, india and large part of europe. So the answer is no its not worth the cost.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#107

Post by TeMPOraL »

jcoffland wrote: post #102
TeMPOraL wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ is strongly hereditary and is pretty well correlated with economic success, so I don't see how this is troubling...

> IQ is strongly hereditary and is pretty well correlated with economic success Can you back up these claims? I don't think either is obviously true. IQ tests themselves have dubious value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/02/11/the-incredible-correlat...

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#108

Post by dagss »

moxious wrote: post #89
dagss wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to play russian roulette when the gun is pointed at somebody else's head isn't it? You say you would rather risk climate change than let go of your current comforts. How awfully convenient for you that the main effects will not be felt by yourself. Rich people (most HN posters included) both benefit most from globalized goods AND are able to shelter themselves from the effects of climate change anyway. You…

Granted it will be felt unevenly by why do you seem so gleeful to put all of this on the rich? Mass production and globalize trade makes medicines for poor people and makes all goods more affordable for low incomes. Also, what's with assuming everyone on HN is rich? Everyone loses without those things. You propose a guaranteed terrible thing for everyone. Are you trying to improve the situation or just try to talk ri…

Why I put it all on the rich? Here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_...

Basically, correlate that with a map of GDP per capita.

But to be completely honest I just got fired up as I found (and still find) your comment in bad taste. If you are a rice farmer on the coast of Bangladesh or similar then I apologize. One can argue back and forth about economy, but altering the sea level without compensation to those who loose their land is not fair.

As for what I really believe I think a lot of mass production can be kept, and also noone is proposing to scrap ships or global trade overnight. Proposals for fixing global warming abound and is generally to gradually tax for emissions caused (ie put price tag on externality). This will then drive the economy towards less polluting alternatives where it is easiest.

That is not a "proposed terrible thing for everyone" in the same way that when OPEC doubles the oil price the economy does move on and adapt.

E.g. in my country of Norway some fish gets sent to China for packaging and then it gets shipped back where it came from. Eliminating that indirectly through increased shipping costs means some increased price in frozen fish to the consumer, but also more local jobs.

In the end "end of global trade and mass production" is extremely simplistic. It is all about how well the world economy will do with or without.

And there are studies on that, so that either of us don't have to rely on our gut. And they show the effects of climate change on the global economy to be devastating when it finally hits. It is not the lesser evil at all.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#109

Post by jcoffland »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #107
jcoffland wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IQ is strongly hereditary and is pretty well correlated with economic success Can you back up these claims? I don't think either is obviously true. IQ tests themselves have dubious value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/02/11/the-incredible-correlat...

From the Wikipedia page:

> A study (1999) by Capron and Duyme of French children adopted between the ages of four and six examined the influence of socioeconomic status (SES). The children's IQs initially averaged 77, putting them near retardation. Most were abused or neglected as infants, then shunted from one foster home or institution to the next. Nine years later after adoption, when they were on average 14 years old, they retook the IQ tests, and all of them did better. The amount they improved was directly related to the adopting family's socioeconomic status. "Children adopted by farmers and laborers had average IQ scores of 85.5; those placed with middle-class families had average scores of 92. The average IQ scores of youngsters placed in well-to-do homes climbed more than 20 points, to 98."

This demonstrates quite clearly that high socioeconomic status causes high IQ scores, not the other way around.

Your other source is the Pumpkin Person who's blog is titled "The psychology of horror" and writes about horror movies. Does not appear credible.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#110

Post by Fej »

badosu wrote: post #14
Fej wrote: post #7

We are beyond the point where individual action can make a difference. Legislation is necessary to stop the worst of catastrophes.

I understand where you're coming from, however you must take into consideration that your individual actions are perceptible by your peers. A difference in culture has much more potential effect than what may be perceptible. You may not control Congress, but you can control your actions and influence your peers. Tiny influences can impact in an emergent change in the future. Of course, this is highly subjective and p…

I do see it as ethics, but you are right.
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