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Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

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Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#42
post #20

1) Discourage your work 'culture' from being built around aggressive tech code reviews/debates/arguments/chat where young males love to beat their chest 2) Some flexibility on hours/location when children come. Women have a harder 'stop' than men do on their child bearing age, which frequently coincides with moving into senior development roles.

I'm male, barely progressive, of below average couth, and probably seem like a dinosaur to younger colleagues when it comes to gender issues, but I think your item #1 is without question the most endlessly frustrating and pointless source of tedium in the software business and its only gotten worse during the last 20 years.

I've found myself finding more common ground with young women on my teams than with the young men for this reason, and for the reason that when I do have something constructive to offer during a review then young women generally respond to it in a way that I like (e.g. they make a value judgement about what advice was worth taking and what wasn't and do it).

The kind of men you're describing seem to find a way to turn everything into a sport, and seem to be oblivious to the effect that they have on people whose attitudes toward competition don't match their own. It is frequently embarrassing to watch, and definitely my least favorite aspect of this work.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#43
post #20

1) Discourage your work 'culture' from being built around aggressive tech code reviews/debates/arguments/chat where young males love to beat their chest 2) Some flexibility on hours/location when children come. Women have a harder 'stop' than men do on their child bearing age, which frequently coincides with moving into senior development roles.

> 1) Discourage your work 'culture' from being built around aggressive tech code reviews/debates/arguments/chat where young males love to beat their chest

I'm sure whatever you'd like to replace these processes could be described in equally sweeping sexist terms going the opposite direction, you know.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#44
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a case to be made that, in general, women may be more sensitive to some universal tech industry issues which men tend to shrug off or otherwise deal with differently.

Do you have any supporting evidence to help build this case? I don't buy it.

According to Dr. Elaine Aron, http://hsperson.com there is a similar percentage sensitivity in both genders, 15-20%.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#46
post #20

1) Discourage your work 'culture' from being built around aggressive tech code reviews/debates/arguments/chat where young males love to beat their chest 2) Some flexibility on hours/location when children come. Women have a harder 'stop' than men do on their child bearing age, which frequently coincides with moving into senior development roles.

Point number 1 is ridiculous and sexist. Oh yeah let's ship code that hasn't been reviewed because the young males in our company will act like chimpanzees, and those pesky technical debates let's scratch those too. Let's just use whatever piece of technology is trending today on HN

It's not about women even introverts won't fit in this kind of situation. How many agile poker are played where only two chimps are arguing ?

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#47

Am I wrong or all the issues seem to be not gender related but about management and they apply to both sexes?

Well, due to the outrageous skew in gender, I think you have to read these things more deeply. There are offices with 18 or 20 men and 0 women or 1 woman. That doesn't happen statistically - certainly not with the incentives of exceedingly high salaries and a field that is open to all (by means of a computer science undergraduate program.) Look at something that is much harder than becoming a software engineer: becoming an MD in the United States. It has far higher mental and educational requirements; it's simply harder. An MD can learn C++ (to code their medical application) much faster than a C++ engineer can learn even a tiny part of the MD's domain expertise.

Here is the gender breakdown of MD's:

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/physicians-by-gender/

Women comprise 34% of MD's to 66% men. That is a statistical skew, but nowhere near the 93% male that programmers face. In essence when you reply to a comment here on HN you could carelessly say "he" referring to an OP without referring to their first name, whereas if this were a forum for physicians you would not make that assumption because it's not skewed enough for you to do so. (Here on HN there are lots of female engineers but they don't usually announce themselves explicitly.)

So software engineering has a gender problem. Now we're getting an interview about what some people cite for leaving an industry in which they can make six figures within their first five years, with nothing more than an undergraduate education or the equivalent self-learning of 25% of one.

So it is important to read the interviews extremely carefully and with a very open mind.

For example, what are some of the worst things about being a software engineer: insane hours; intense mental focus (it is impossible not to take your work home with you and I am sure many programmers routinely dream of the tasks they are working on); coupled with bull-pen open space offices:

However, open office plans[1] were not cited by the women in this interview. Zero mentions as far as I can see (I re-skimmed and also searched inline for "open').

The word hour or hours does not occur a single time.

So even though it appears that the issues cited are independent of gender, it is imperative to read these interviews very deeply. There could be more to them than meets the eye.

I don't know what it is, but it has to be in these interviews, lurking beneath the surface. Read more deeply.

[1] such as the monstrosity pictured here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_plan

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#49
post #20

1) Discourage your work 'culture' from being built around aggressive tech code reviews/debates/arguments/chat where young males love to beat their chest 2) Some flexibility on hours/location when children come. Women have a harder 'stop' than men do on their child bearing age, which frequently coincides with moving into senior development roles.

It doesn't even need to be "young males beating their chest". I've been in plenty of hostile reviews with completely harmless, introverted, soft spoken INTJ-types who simply can't get past some nitpick because it doesn't fit into their perfect, logical world view and refuse to budge an inch. Our industry has a personality problem as much or more as it has a sex problem.

I agree, maybe I should have said passive-aggressive. It's certainly also an issue from the physically 'meek and mild' types.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: How Can Managers Help Retain Technical Women?

#50
Wow. So in the name of getting women women into tech, we need to abandon

* Code reviews, design documents, and anything else that might provide a forum for "chest thumping"

* Opportunities to express one's love of traditionally geeky things

* Organic conversation during happy hour

* Meritocracy (since diversity pushes end up being affirmative action in practice)

Maybe women in tech are less common than men in tech not because of some fundamental unfairness, but because fewer women want to be in tech. Maybe that's okay, and people like you are doing significant damage trying to create an unnatural situation of exact equity that nobody really wants.

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