Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 58 posts

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#11

Post by matt4077 »

woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

I have absolutely no knowledge of the structure of societies at the time, but it strikes me as unlikely that someone could live as a travelling criminal and survive into his 40s. At some point, your skills stop mattering if you're involved in fights to death every few days.

I seem to remember a theory that he was something like a traveling merchant, which could explain his apparent wealth. No idea how that would have worked at the time, i. e. transport of whatever he was trading. Maybe small & valuable and therefore stolen by his assassin, who left personal artefacts behind after seizing the main prize?

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#12

Post by nickbauman »

matt4077 wrote: post #11
woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

I have absolutely no knowledge of the structure of societies at the time, but it strikes me as unlikely that someone could live as a travelling criminal and survive into his 40s. At some point, your skills stop mattering if you're involved in fights to death every few days. I seem to remember a theory that he was something like a traveling merchant, which could explain his apparent wealth. No idea how that would have…

If they had domesticated wheat, they were already moving away from hunter-gathering and towards settled civilization, if not fully settled. It's possible they weren't quite farming, but reached the level of pure pastoralists, where they tended herds but didn't plant.

I think that kind of movement along elevations in such a short time period seems like his last few days were very, very frantic.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#13

Post by nickbauman »

INTPenis wrote: post #9
woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

I love all the speculation in this thread so I thought I'd just chime in and say blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons. I believe both axe and arrow heads. This was on HN a few weeks back but I couldn't find that particular article, instead I found one on NatGeo[1] from 2003 saying the same thing. 1. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_...

Wow so Otzi was quite the badass, then.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#16

Post by Gibbon1 »

nickbauman wrote: post #5
woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

Doesn't explain why Otzi's valuable possessions weren't taken by the avenger. The artifacts were likely left behind because Otzi had ties to the village. Taking those possessions would have tied the avenger to his actions, likely putting the avenger at risk all over again.

Could be difference between owning your dead fathers axe and owning the axe that a vagabond used to kill people in the village.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#17

Post by autokad »

INTPenis wrote: post #9
woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

I love all the speculation in this thread so I thought I'd just chime in and say blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons. I believe both axe and arrow heads. This was on HN a few weeks back but I couldn't find that particular article, instead I found one on NatGeo[1] from 2003 saying the same thing. 1. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_...

yeah i was surprised they ignored that in the article. I disagree with 'they didn't steal anything because the village would recognize it'. that hasn't stopped much people in present day. they kind of ignore the fact that despite having a kills shot, they didn't go in to make sure he was dead like a zombieland double tap.

also, if he had a disabling wound 2 days ago, why wasn't he in the village getting care?

i had wondered if he was some sort of serial killer/robber and people were well aware of a killer in the mountains. perhaps they didnt go in closer for fear of some sort of curse or that he might not be dead

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#18

Post by salesguy222 »

autokad wrote: post #17
INTPenis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love all the speculation in this thread so I thought I'd just chime in and say blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons. I believe both axe and arrow heads. This was on HN a few weeks back but I couldn't find that particular article, instead I found one on NatGeo[1] from 2003 saying the same thing. 1. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_...

yeah i was surprised they ignored that in the article. I disagree with 'they didn't steal anything because the village would recognize it'. that hasn't stopped much people in present day. they kind of ignore the fact that despite having a kills shot, they didn't go in to make sure he was dead like a zombieland double tap. also, if he had a disabling wound 2 days ago, why wasn't he in the village getting care? i had w…

I think in the PBS documentary or something like it on youtube, they found a pretty big cerebral bruise on Otzi.

It's possible someone hit him with a rock to finish him off, or he hit his head on a rock when he was reacting to being wounded.

It seems that he was used to covering long distances and routinely got into fights. Otzi is probably similar to a cave raider from Oblivion :)

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#20

Post by dmix »

berberous wrote: post #19

After reading the article, I was curious about all the objects they mentioned he had carried. This site has descriptions and pictures of each: http://www.iceman.it/en/equipment/ Very interesting.

Wow, some of that stuff is in great condition. The axe is definately the most interesting... the only surviving one of it's kind even though it was a status symbol often buried with bodies of important people. And it's 99% copper from a body from the Copper Age!
Post reply on HN