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What You Can Do About Climate Change

nytimes.com

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Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#41

Post by stinkytaco »

awjr wrote: post #19

1) If you have to buy an electric vehicle. 2) Go vegetarian. (Avoid beef if you can't and eat meat less). 3) Stop buying stuff. 4) Repair not replace. 5) Move to an urban environment. 6) Consider going car free. (Walk, Bike, Public Transport, Car clubs). 7) Stop flying. 8) Avoid plastic packaging, or at least any product in packaging that cannot be locally recycled. (Here in the UK I have no idea why we allow food to…

This list should be called "things upper-middle class people can do about climate change." It's all good advice, but so few people can do these things. Either the cost, time, or economic reality stand in the way of productive solutions. Because of this, climate change is an international political problem, one that will require so many unpopular solutions that I'm extremely pessimistic about the outcome.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#42

Post by jdavis703 »

ThomPete wrote: post #20
blurbleblurble wrote: post #13

Reading this article makes me feel very angry, especially as I look at the authors' background. There are so many things we can do, and these people are telling us that "the winner" is driving brand new fuel efficient cars, hot off the assembly line? What about biking? Walking? What about changing our habits so as not to rely as much on cars in the first place. How about not driving ? There are people who don't drive…

Not driving is not an option in many cases. Starting to bike doesn't solve climate change problems. Not sure how you would plant a raspberry tree in a New York apartment. There is very little the normal person can do about climate change without radically changing the way they live their lives and thats just not an option for most people.

It's funny, I have a lime tree and fig tree in my apartment, along with some other plants.

Even if not driving is not an option, there's always carpooling which should approximately halve the impact of driving alone.

We can either wait for climate change to disrupt our lives, or we can disrupt climate change.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#43

Post by exergy »

ThomPete wrote: post #20
blurbleblurble wrote: post #13

Reading this article makes me feel very angry, especially as I look at the authors' background. There are so many things we can do, and these people are telling us that "the winner" is driving brand new fuel efficient cars, hot off the assembly line? What about biking? Walking? What about changing our habits so as not to rely as much on cars in the first place. How about not driving ? There are people who don't drive…

Not driving is not an option in many cases. Starting to bike doesn't solve climate change problems. Not sure how you would plant a raspberry tree in a New York apartment. There is very little the normal person can do about climate change without radically changing the way they live their lives and thats just not an option for most people.

Forgive me for the forthcoming rant, this is not a slight at you, but I really dislike the kind of attitude that you are projecting here. Al Gore famously said in his documentary that a lot of people go from Denial to Despair without pausing at the middle step of Doing Something about it.

Biking definitely can solve climate change. Seems to me that people simply do not get it through their heads that climate change starts with what they expect out of life. As long as everyone wants to drive an SUV or a fucking pickup truck because it is "safe", live 25 miles from work, own a new smartphone every two years, have a perfectly manicured front and back yard etc., we are all fucked. For too many people, climate change is a "their" problem:

* Wind turbines? Sure, just not in my backyard because it spoils my fucking view.

* Nuclear reactors? Hmm, maybe, but definitely not in my state, and preferably not in my country.

* Not travelling to exotic locations every holiday, and instead going on local hikes a bit more? No way!

* Give up owning a new smartphone every two years? Dead on Arrival.

* Wearing a sweater indoors in the winter instead of constant 25 deg C temperature indoors and 20 minute hot showers? Go fuck yourself. No, but look! I installed a Nest thermostat, so the do-gooder halo around my head is glowing bright!

* Biking to work? I can't! Live too far from home this and sweaty at work that.

Nothing but excuses. And wait! Is this uber-consumeristic lifestyle making me happier? No?! How is that possible?

Climate change is NOT a problem that more technology can solve. It is a sociological problem. A problem of what people expect out of life. As long as people keep thinking it's the politicians at fault and they don't owe anyone a damn thing, well, we'll keep on keeping on with business as usual. And you know what business as usual is? We haven't even started decreasing the rate of CO2 increase, what to talk of a zero emission civilization.

Sorry this is incoherent and comes across as a jab at you. It's not. It's just me expressing my frustration as an engineer. I hate that the layperson is convinced that it is engineering that will solve climate change, and That Technology to cure us of all ails is just around the corner. It's not. We need to stop fucking raiding this planet.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#44

Post by mpfundstein »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #21
ThomPete wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not driving is not an option in many cases. Starting to bike doesn't solve climate change problems. Not sure how you would plant a raspberry tree in a New York apartment. There is very little the normal person can do about climate change without radically changing the way they live their lives and thats just not an option for most people.

Well the person in New York has the luxury of decent public transportation. And the person who needs to drive, presumably they live in a suburb or a place with a yard, and they could plant 10 raspberry bushes. Come on! Enough with the excuses! It's getting me down! I'm not saying that people should go and sabotage themselves. I'm saying that there are lots of different things that different people can do to upset thi…

Couldn't agree more. I cycle 30 km every day to work and back. When I was a student, I cycled 40km every to Uni and back. You just have to get used to it. While I own a car, I use it maybe only once per month. To get some wood or transport some things from the IKEA. I have to admit, I live in Amsterdam, so the infrastructure for cycling is great.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#45

Post by madengr »

awjr wrote: post #19

1) If you have to buy an electric vehicle. 2) Go vegetarian. (Avoid beef if you can't and eat meat less). 3) Stop buying stuff. 4) Repair not replace. 5) Move to an urban environment. 6) Consider going car free. (Walk, Bike, Public Transport, Car clubs). 7) Stop flying. 8) Avoid plastic packaging, or at least any product in packaging that cannot be locally recycled. (Here in the UK I have no idea why we allow food to…

13) Kill yourself, preferably in a place where you will decompose into top soil.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#46

Post by Banthum »

awjr wrote: post #19

1) If you have to buy an electric vehicle. 2) Go vegetarian. (Avoid beef if you can't and eat meat less). 3) Stop buying stuff. 4) Repair not replace. 5) Move to an urban environment. 6) Consider going car free. (Walk, Bike, Public Transport, Car clubs). 7) Stop flying. 8) Avoid plastic packaging, or at least any product in packaging that cannot be locally recycled. (Here in the UK I have no idea why we allow food to…

Regarding 9), if you're reading this you should have as many children as possible. Your high-IQ genes will be passed on to them; only the intelligent of the next generation will have the foresight and technical ability to develop real (technological) solutions to environmental problems.

It's pretty well-demonstrated that the moralistic approach to climate change, where you harangue people into recycling or biking or whatever, doesn't work. It's just trimming around the edges, leaving the core 95% of the problem untouched. People won't give up their lifestyles, and in the case of poor third-worlders it's hard to ask them to do that anyway.

If climate change is stopped, it'll be by technological solutions.

There's <10% of the world population who will be endowed with the genetic gifts to participate in this process of technical solution-making. Your kids will be among them. Make some kids.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#47

Post by exergy »

ohbecause wrote: post #36
awjr wrote: post #19

1) If you have to buy an electric vehicle. 2) Go vegetarian. (Avoid beef if you can't and eat meat less). 3) Stop buying stuff. 4) Repair not replace. 5) Move to an urban environment. 6) Consider going car free. (Walk, Bike, Public Transport, Car clubs). 7) Stop flying. 8) Avoid plastic packaging, or at least any product in packaging that cannot be locally recycled. (Here in the UK I have no idea why we allow food to…

5) Move to an urban environment Are you serious? If I go and buy an acre of land (or many acres, more likely) and grow my own food, keep a few animals, and trade with my neighbours, how the hell does "move to an urban environment" make me suddenly more efficient? So I can rely on the supply chain to get all the goods that I could get by walking down the street to another farm?

IF you can buy an acre, please definitely do so. That will do more to help than almost anything else. On the other hand, the typical 2.5 kid family in Suburbia that drives even to the grocery store? They're better off moving to the city.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#48

Post by ThomPete »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5
mrgriscom wrote: post #2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Short comment, but entirely true. The cost decline curve of solar and wind has been stupid : Wind is below 2 cents/kwh unsubsidized, solar still around 6-8 cents/kwh unsubsidized; natural gas is destroying the demand for coal, and renewables are destroying demand for nuclear. As renewable deployments accelerate, they will push out natural gas generation (along with cheaper battery storage). Electric vehicles are here…

storage haven't been solved and a large part of the entire economy is based on debt in the fossile fuel industry. renewables are not destroying the deman for nuclear as the worlds energy demand will continue to rise quite substantially as 1 billion people enter the middle class over the next decades.

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#49

Post by soVeryTired »

nkurz wrote: post #18
nawitus wrote: post #10

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. Anyway, I sometimes think it's quite funny how my own lifestyle is so much more green than the average "green" person. I don't have children, I don't own or drive a car, I only use public transporation, 99% of which runs on electricity. I'm vegan, I haven't been on an airplane for like maybe 4 or 5 years. I live in a modern, energy efficient and small apartment. I buy…

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. I tried to research this a while ago, and I think the numbers work out to say that going from a "standard" American omnivorous diet to a "standard" American vegetarian diet corresponds to a CO2 emissions reduction equivalent a one-way NY-SF flight or drive. Going from that to the a vegan diet is about equivalent to avoiding the return flight or drive. So if you've alre…

Is that one flight annually or one flight in a lifetime?

Re: What You Can Do About Climate Change

#50

Post by baddox »

ohbecause wrote: post #36
awjr wrote: post #19

1) If you have to buy an electric vehicle. 2) Go vegetarian. (Avoid beef if you can't and eat meat less). 3) Stop buying stuff. 4) Repair not replace. 5) Move to an urban environment. 6) Consider going car free. (Walk, Bike, Public Transport, Car clubs). 7) Stop flying. 8) Avoid plastic packaging, or at least any product in packaging that cannot be locally recycled. (Here in the UK I have no idea why we allow food to…

5) Move to an urban environment Are you serious? If I go and buy an acre of land (or many acres, more likely) and grow my own food, keep a few animals, and trade with my neighbours, how the hell does "move to an urban environment" make me suddenly more efficient? So I can rely on the supply chain to get all the goods that I could get by walking down the street to another farm?

I would be quite surprised if growing your own food at small scale is more environmentally friendly than living in an urban area and consuming food that was produced and transported at massive scale.
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