This thread is great. Whenever H-1B threads come up on HN, I prepare for the onslaught of what can only be described as hatred. It's the view of many people on this site that all H-1B holders are "cheaters" of the system, and they don't deserve to get a job in the US. As a former H-1B holder, the threads always made me feel guilty, and feel bad about wanting to work for a well regarded, successful company. It's nice, and refreshing, to see that it's not the view of everyone, and that H-1B holders are equals and deserve the same rights as everyone else.
Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
91–100 of 218 posts
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Leaving immigration aside -- there are order-of-magnitude compensation differences even among white US-citizen programmers. I.e., some are paid 50k a year; some are paid 500k a year. How is it possible for someone to figure out what they're "worth" in this environment?
I'd hazard a guess that a computer professional who was unable to use google to determine a salary range for his education and experience is probably worth at the bottom. The ones I know at the top end (and the $500k figure is low) are well aware of the value they bring to a corporation, and price accordingly.
For example, suppose a corporation has a $100m server farm. If a programmer could make the server software run 1% faster, that's worth $1m to the corporation, and they'd likely be willing to bid $500k for such expertise.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I'm not sure you've paid attention to the effect that this has had on employment levels in several European countries, and on adherence to employment legislation.
I have. The effect is very small for most purposes. It's largely fabricated right wing propaganda. From Oxford University: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings... Does immigration create greater unemployment or greater inactivity among existing workers? The first systematic study of this issue used data for 1983-2000 to analyse how changes in the share of migrants impact on employment, labour…
Your own comment contradicts what you're saying:
> an increase in the share of migrants in the labour force increases unemployment for those with skills most similar to the migrants in the short to medium term (over a period of 5-10 years), but that immigration has no significant impact on unemployment in the long run (Jean and Jimenez 2010).
A period of 10 years is a quarter of a person's working lifetime and is, at a personal level, not short term. Being in a European country I should point out too that the rate of large-scale immigration events happen more frequently than 10 years, and so some industries now remain in a constant state of upheaval in terms of indigenous employment.
I was in an industry that saw an almost overnight shift in indigenous employment, and worker's rights, upon migrations from Brazil, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. It's only now, 10 years later, that it's becoming viable as a career prospect again because net emigration has increased. Of course, we had to put up with massive unemployment for under 30's in the meantime, and all of the social ramifications of this.
But yes, it's a small effect and is just propaganda. 30-40% of people under 30 just stayed unemployed long-term for fun.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I'm not sure you've paid attention to the effect that this has had on employment levels in several European countries, and on adherence to employment legislation.
I'm not sure how European unemployment can be blamed on Schengen.
Western European unemployment.
Check out the demographic increases in western European countries. Ireland's population has increased 50% in 10-15 years and a majority of it is accounted for by immigration from poorer countries within the Schengen.
Now the disparity in wealth between even poor and wealthy European countries isn't anything like the disparity between countries at a global level, but you reckon that anybody should be able to move to the US to work.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#95I wonder why people here praise free competition on a global market as a primary value when they talk about their products and services, but support competition limiting when it comes to the labor market in their own country.
I probably hold a minority opinion, but I wish that the US would take millions of immigrants every year, up to even ten million(!). And people from OECD countries could come automatically as they pleased, ideally like a Schengen Area that extended throughout the whole OECD, with hope of eventually including the entire world.
How would this work in practice? I'm guessing you're from a reasonably financially comfortable background so you don't have to worry about loss of security. What happens in 10 years time when the market only seeks Tensorflow experts with a PhD in AI and you're relegated to flipping burgers or driving ubers which you can't do anyway because robots and so you rely on basic income and lose all sense of worth and purpose to society...
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not quite IMHO. Free market requires equal conditions for the available workforce pool. Then, the worker is free to set his price. Not the other way around.
It's not free market but H-1B makes the market freer. If you want a truly free market, allow free immigration similar to what the U.S. did with some races before about 1910.
It wasn't free immigration even then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#97I've personally witnessed the hiring of a contractor from India at a small development company simply to save on funds. There were plenty of skilled workers in our pool to fill the position, the owner simply didn't want to pay the price. Weeks into his employment the developer came to me and asked if there was anyone he could report work complaints to. I gave him contact information for the state's employment agency.…
That sounds like free market though doesn't it? Hire the cheapest workforce that can do what you want?
Its not a free market if workers get deported if they quit or are fired.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have. The effect is very small for most purposes. It's largely fabricated right wing propaganda. From Oxford University: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings... Does immigration create greater unemployment or greater inactivity among existing workers? The first systematic study of this issue used data for 1983-2000 to analyse how changes in the share of migrants impact on employment, labour…
Your own comment contradicts what you're saying: > an increase in the share of migrants in the labour force increases unemployment for those with skills most similar to the migrants in the short to medium term (over a period of 5-10 years), but that immigration has no significant impact on unemployment in the long run (Jean and Jimenez 2010). A period of 10 years is a quarter of a person's working lifetime and is, at…
I'd need to see concrete numbers showing the reason behind those 30-40% unemployed was immigration, rather than other reasons.
When an immigrant moves into a country he contributes plenty to the local economy. He needs a haircut, so he goes to the local hairdresser. He needs groceries, so he goes to the local shop. He pays rent, buys a car, furniture, pays taxes, schools, etc etc. This helps a lot of people stay employed.
Economic crises happen. Industries - like paper and many others - simply become obsolete and some are going to die. If you are trivially replaced, or only qualified to work on a dying industry you're in for a tough time, and no amount of immigrant bans or protectionist policies is going to help you.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#99I wonder why people here praise free competition on a global market as a primary value when they talk about their products and services, but support competition limiting when it comes to the labor market in their own country.
The point is not limitation of the labor market, the point is plain a simple fraud, like submitting fake "end-client letters" to the government.
Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not free market but H-1B makes the market freer. If you want a truly free market, allow free immigration similar to what the U.S. did with some races before about 1910.
It wasn't free immigration even then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
True, it was racist.