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Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#31

Post by ryuuchin »

I didn't see this mentioned in the blog posts but I believe Edge also has win32k filtering[1] to reduce the kernel attack surface as well (added in the AU). This is different from the win32k lockdown that Chrome uses which completely blocks all win32k syscalls but instead allows a whitelist(?) for acceptable syscalls to help reduce the attack surface (I'm not actually sure how it works).

It seems the signature is checked before allowing this mitigation so only Microsoft signed applications can currently use this mitigation[1].

[1] https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2016/11/breaking-chai... (see Wrap Up section near the end)

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#32

Post by Kipters »

JamesNK wrote: post #22
mwcampbell wrote: post #13

The earlier post on Code Integrity Guard and Arbitrary Code Guard is also interesting: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2017/02/23/mitigating-ar... Microsoft should apply these same restrictions to all UWP apps. Yes, that means banning JIT compilation, as Apple does on iOS. And desktop applications shouldn't be able to inject DLLs into UWP applications and system components.

UWP apps from the Windows Store already ban JIT compilation - at least for .NET apps. When .NET UWP applications are uploaded the store pre-compiles them on the server with .NET Native. The user only downloads and executes native code.

Not really, the .NET Native step is performed at build time, the packages the developer uploads to the Store are AOT-compiled

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#33

Post by badminton1 »

Edge's only practical purpose is to download Chrome or Firefox, and I hope it stays that way.

MS made it very painful for website developers to support Internet Explorer, and having to support IE crippled the web for years.

Today there is not a single developer that likes Internet Explorer or its successor Edge. You will not see a single human being on planet Earth with an Edge t-shirt, and if you see one, it's probably that person's laundry day.

The e logo only brings memories of your computer freezing or getting millions of stupid popups or a browser window with hundreds of toolbars (when you used someone else's computer), and conversations asking people to try another browser, or having to switch my user-agent string or create a VM with the sole purpose of running an IE only website, or having to stay late at work because some user with IE experienced problems.

Plus, Microsoft is dishonest and used their browser to mine Google Search activity and send it to their servers to improve Bing. And god knows what else.

Microsoft is selfish, plays dirty and does not deserve a seat at the table of people deciding web standards. They can make Chakra 100x faster, make you a sandwich and jump through hoops but nobody trusts them anymore so it doesn't matter.

We all lived a decade under the tyranny of Internet Explorer and we had enough. If there is a product that deserves to go away, it's Microsoft's web browser. The day it does I am going to throw away a party, and I am sure many others will as well. Please give up, use your time on something else.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#34

Post by badminton1 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #8
tapirl wrote: post #4

just checked my website visitor log. Only 1% people use Edge. It is not a surprise at all. The best way to secure a browser is just like what chrome and firefox do: open source it.

Chrome isn't Open Source. Chromium is Open Source. Chrome adds a lot of proprietary bits including (but not limited to): Audio & Video Codecs, Flash Plugin, Crash Reporting, Metrics, et al.

Better than Edge that is fully closed source.

You can use Chromium directly if you want to.

Many important projects exist because Chromium and v8 are open source.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#35

Post by Ezhik »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #2

From the comments section: "I want to support MS, I’m a development partner. But I feel like you guys spend way too much time thinking about how to push intrusive ad’s into the OS and trying to get easy ad-based revenue from your browser: Talking very good security talk but not walking a very good security walk." The commenter also makes a comment about how Chrome the older browser was found to be much more secure th…

A Microsoft website requiring a Microsoft account to make comments? The horror!

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#36

Post by repples »

badminton1 wrote: post #34
Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome isn't Open Source. Chromium is Open Source. Chrome adds a lot of proprietary bits including (but not limited to): Audio & Video Codecs, Flash Plugin, Crash Reporting, Metrics, et al.

Better than Edge that is fully closed source. You can use Chromium directly if you want to. Many important projects exist because Chromium and v8 are open source.

Actually the JavaScript engine of Edge is open source.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#37

Post by badminton1 »

repples wrote: post #36
badminton1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than Edge that is fully closed source. You can use Chromium directly if you want to. Many important projects exist because Chromium and v8 are open source.

Actually the JavaScript engine of Edge is open source.

Chakra is open source. The rest is not.

The IE/Edge layout engine has always been a source of infamous trickery. It would be good that they finally open source it.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#38

Post by repples »

badminton1 wrote: post #37
repples wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the JavaScript engine of Edge is open source.

Chakra is open source. The rest is not. The IE/Edge layout engine has always been a source of infamous trickery. It would be good that they finally open source it.

As Chakra is part of Edge, then Edge is not fully closed source.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#39

Post by najajomo »

CIG, ACG, RCE .. I thought DEP and ASLR was supposed to have already cured RCE. Lets face it, when are they going to admit that the Windows memory model running on Intel hardware is defective. Lets see how long this comment stays up before modded into oblivion.

Re: Strengthening the Microsoft Edge Sandbox

#40

Post by rossy »

mwcampbell wrote: post #13

The earlier post on Code Integrity Guard and Arbitrary Code Guard is also interesting: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2017/02/23/mitigating-ar... Microsoft should apply these same restrictions to all UWP apps. Yes, that means banning JIT compilation, as Apple does on iOS. And desktop applications shouldn't be able to inject DLLs into UWP applications and system components.

> Microsoft should apply these same restrictions to all UWP apps. Yes, that means banning JIT compilation, as Apple does on iOS.

I really wish they didn't. Banning JIT means banning alternative web browsers (with alternative JavaScript engines,) banning other languages that use a runtime with a JIT, and making it very difficult to write programs that need a JIT for performance, like video game emulators. Banning JIT outright like Apple does makes for a less useful computing platform. What's worse is that if certain operating-system components are allowed to break the rules (like the built-in JavaScript engine,) it locks you in to the vendor's implementation of these components. Imagine if you could only use the CLR and not the JVM on Windows. Mitigating RCEs is important, but it's not that important.

Making it a policy that can be enabled per-app (like Windows 10, according to a sibling comment) is fine though.

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