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Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

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Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#71

Post by PhasmaFelis »

jernfrost wrote: post #48
chrishowlin wrote: post #7

I worry that China is outcompeting us.

Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. If Chine gets richer and more technologically advance that would be good for them and good for us westerners. It is not a zero sum game. Although to be realistic I don't think China will ever outcompete the US. Not because I don't want them to, but simply because so many fundamentals count in Americas…

> Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one.

Are you guys seriously not getting the joke? I don't usually buy into the stereotype that Hacker News is utterly humorless, but you're not making it easy.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#72

Post by good_vibes »

bmh100 wrote: post #65
good_vibes wrote: post #61

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think about this stuff a lot, how much ancient and modern overlap, how much Eastern and western overlap, yet how people still want to divide everything. "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein "The people in the Indian countryside don’t use t…

These divisions are very important. As long as mystical beliefs towards Eastern thought are used to cause real harm through herbal remedies and supplements, the public must be taught to give it less importance. Among critical thinkers, it is valuable to look for similarities in scientific histories.

Big Pharm and meat-based diet do a lot more harm to the entire biosphere and individuals than Ayurvedic medicine and yoga. Don't even get me started.

I don't know much about Eastern medicine outside of India to be honest. One exception: Chinese people buy tiger bone Viagra, elephant tusk art, rhino horn something, and shark fin soup.

I was born Hindu but became closer to Buddhist as I learned more about the scientific revolution and how it built the modern world.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#73

Post by contingencies »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #70
contingencies wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the non zero-sum point, however... China is facing a demographic catastrophe. Strongly disagree. The view on the ground in China is great. Almost everyone has their material needs exceeded, many sectors of infrastructure are second to none, education and internationalization of tastes is increasing, and the society is generally very safe. E-vehicles and e-commerce are everywhere. Rent a bicycle for nothi…

> (FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr (~USD$28/hr) these days... a great many western workers are on less than half of that, and would do very well to migrate.) Quoting wages is meaningless if you don't also mention cost of living.

Depends on location and expectations, generally speaking in second or third tier cities usually 5000/month outgoings is comfortable, ie. breakeven from 25 hours/month (6 hours/week).

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#74

Post by random314 »

quakeguy wrote: post #62
gnipgnip wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that's a bit strange ? The dude was helping the massacre the Bantus in Africa and suddenly becomes a "messiah" in a few years after returning to India ? I mean that is a miracle [1]. I wish historical figures were reassessed every few years in light of contemporary ethics, but this never happens with those the establishment wants you to see in positive light. His antics are well-documented (with lots…

Oh, well, i need to adjust my view then. Thanks for your reply, very insightful indeed!

Don't be too enamored. These are fairly standard right wing talking points in India. From his comments on Gandhi and Pythagoras one can easily infer that he is a supporter of Narendra Modi and Hindu supremacy.

Pythagoras' school provided the earliest documented proof of the theorem, but the result was possibly known as early as 3000 BC.

As for Gandhi, he grew up in a strictly birth based hierarchical society and he pretty much accepted social and racial hierarchies until his thoughts evolved circa 1913. Most of Gandhi's racist quotes come from before 1910.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#75

Post by paradite »

lacampbell wrote: post #4

Any ideas of it's authentic? China is hyper nationalist so I'm initially skeptical. Might be as fictitous as their GDP figures or sovereignty over Taiwan.

Making sweeping statements like this on controversial topics without substantiation usually leads to flame war, as evident here.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#76

Post by gp7 »

sn41 wrote: post #58
jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

I think you're being a little unfair to philosophy of science here, bearing in mind how poorly 'Leviathan and the air-pump' was received by actual scientists.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#77

Post by gnipgnip »

random314 wrote: post #74
quakeguy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, well, i need to adjust my view then. Thanks for your reply, very insightful indeed!

Don't be too enamored. These are fairly standard right wing talking points in India. From his comments on Gandhi and Pythagoras one can easily infer that he is a supporter of Narendra Modi and Hindu supremacy. Pythagoras' school provided the earliest documented proof of the theorem, but the result was possibly known as early as 3000 BC. As for Gandhi, he grew up in a strictly birth based hierarchical society and he p…

Exercise in dealing with such "Exhibit A"'s:

> Pythagoras' school provided the earliest documented proof of the theorem, but the result was possibly known as early as 3000 BC.

Actually there is no known evidence Pythagoras or his school had any relation to the theorem. Much of it is word-of-mouth legend (and even then not particularly informative).

It's amusing when the same people accept legends from Europe as canonical, while treating similar historical data in India as literally non-existent.

> Don't be too enamored. These are fairly standard right wing talking points in India. From his comments on Gandhi and Pythagoras one can easily infer that he is a supporter of Narendra Modi and Hindu supremacy.

> As for Gandhi, he grew up in a strictly birth based hierarchical society and he pretty much accepted social and racial hierarchies until his thoughts evolved circa 1913. Most of Gandhi's racist quotes come from before 1910.

I guess the Native Americans too were "supremacists". How about the Bantus, don't forget them, man! ... These narratives get mind-numbingly boring; much as it does to hear of the BJP as some great establishment challengers. Eesh, don't you sheep read anything other than the Hindu's editorials ? In any case, this has typically been the talking point of the status quo-ists and pro-establishment ones for .. what 300 years ?

I'd not keep my hopes up with such creatures though since they have neither the afflictions of reading nor of reason. Social creatures will exploit the status-quo for maximum gain, and anyone who claims we (even in the occident) don't live in a hierarchical society are naive fools not worth arguing with.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#78

Post by smdz »

gnipgnip wrote: post #54

Much of modern history is a throwback of the colonial times when the "barbarians" from the West were trying to search for some great past of their people. Thus much of what is attributed to the Greeks and Romans today should belong to the civilizations of Asia (India, China, and Iran). Pythagorean theorem has nothing to do with Pythagoras or the Greeks even [3] ! There is nice interview of Manjul Bhargava (surroundin…

> All said, calling India a nation of idiots at this point would be a compliment.

If I could, I would have downvoted you just for this statement. Although everything else is "good facts"

I have read so many books from Gandhi, but cannot find a connection to his thoughts/principles - in a normal scenario. What makes sense is this statement (used in India): "Mazboori ka naam Mahatma Gandhi.” i.e When you are helpless, act like Mahatma Gandhi. And that makes perfect sense because India's population was weak and helpless against the British rulers.

For other people, who don't want to dig-down the national anthem in English - here it is from the all knowing Wikipedia. The first two lines are enough to offend India's democracy - yet its the national anthem

I am going to write to the Indian authorities - unfortunately, at the best they'll change the translation and brainwash with bad history again.

----

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana

You are the ruler (directing the nation for farewell) of the hearts of all peoples,

Dispenser of India's fortune.

Thy name rouses the hearts of the Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, and Maratha,

Of the Dravida, and Odisha and Bengal.

It echoes in the hills of Vindhyas and,

Himalayas, mingles in the music of the

Yamuna and the Ganga and is chanted by

the waves of the Indian Sea.

We pray for your blessings,

and sing by your praise,

The saving of all people

waits in thy hand.

You are the dispenser of India's fortune,

Victory, victory, victory to thee.[7]

----

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#79

Post by ciphix »

sn41 wrote: post #58
jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

I totally uphold your idea. One more case, machine learning, especially deep learning, which lacks strict mathematical model and theoretical explanation, actually works pretty well on reality problems in fact. Maybe, it takes years for theorists to build a theoretical framework to explain, but it does not hinder us to exploit the technique.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#80

Post by tiatia »

sn41 wrote: post #58
jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

"medieval Arab scientists"

Ibn_al-Haytham was one of the inventors of the "scientific method". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham

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