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Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

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Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#371

Post by mercutio2 »

acchow wrote: post #335
pascalxus wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SV companies are not price sensitive. They'll pay alot, even just for the benefit of having them in the office. Software companies either win big or lose big. If they win big, they can easily cover whatever cost of salary in SV and there's still a plethora of talent out here in the bay area, for a well funded company.

I think you're describing a certain type of software company - one that doesn't have to answer to shareholders (Google, Facebook, Snap, etc) and thus behave according to what their leader and employees want. Most of the tech industry (including for example Apple and Amazon) isn't like this.

Why do you think Amazon and Apple aren't like this?

All of the big software houses compete for the same engineers, and they're all paying their incremental new engineers +/- 10% the same total comp across the experience spectrum.

I would agree with pascalxus, the big tech companies aren't price sensitive.

That doesn't mean the average engineer can easily finagle a drastically out-of-band salary, but the bands are already exceptionally high and grow faster than inflation in the aggregate.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#372

Post by MK999 »

kbenson wrote: post #78
vonmoltke wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does every company in this industry need to be either a "lifestyle business" or a Google wannabe? What ever happened to growing a business organically over time, or with non-VC investments?

Because if you're growing organically some VC funded competitor is going to try to grow exponentially, and swallow you up or put you out of business. There's no middle ground because all that looks like to people trying to get a return on their investment is that you aren't trying hard enough. That either means they push you harder, or they fund a competitor if you aren't beholden to them.

This exact thing happened at my last company, the boss grew it organically, but then some group in NY decided they were going to buy everything, so they bought 10ish companies (including us) and cobbled together a large industry player, which will out compete the small guys.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#373

Post by Arizhel »

csense wrote: post #324
Arizhel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people don't want to live in boring, conservative places like Amarillo and Des Moines. More importantly, tech company executives and managers really don't want to live there. The workers have to work on-site with managers, so the workers obviously can't live there either. Everyone has to be co-located in the same place.

> Everyone has to be co-located in the same place. Why?

You can't question this. It's known to be true to executives and managers.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#374

Post by sokoloff »

QuantumGravy wrote: post #216
pavel_lishin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't make sense that tech workers would care about these things because we never get to take advantage of them. Not all tech workers are 12-hour-a-day workaholics. Why are you killing yourself at work?

Why would you get paid six figures as a tech worker unless you're a workaholic? If you're not putting those hours in at work, surely you're putting in those hours in for both fun and personal growth at home, right? You're passionate about code, aren't you? ...no, I'm not honestly asking that, but those are the questions I'd expect to fend off.

> Why would you get paid six figures as a tech worker unless you're a workaholic?

Because a tech worker can easily create $300-500+K per year in economic value for the company. Taking home 1/3 of that value seems perfectly reasonable.

Nothing in the above says anything about hours-in-seat.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#375

Post by nickjarboe »

acchow wrote: post #342
glibgil wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what I meant. Bars and museums require wealth

How is a bar owner rent seeking? They are providing a good and charging market prices for it. If bars in the city got together and introduced a bar-density limit within the city so as to limit the number of bars that can exist and thus allow them to raise prices, that would be rent seeking. If a bar hired a bunch of people to attend town hall meetings preventing new bars from opening up and allowing itself to raise p…

Not sure if I'm missing a sarcasm tag in your comment but most places in the US restrict the number of places selling hard alcohol by having a restricted number of liquor licenses that trade on the open market like taxi medallions. In San Francisco for a restaurant this will set you back a cool 1/4 million[1] and the type 48 license you need to open a bar seem be sold so rarely in San Francisco I can't find any price reference online.

[1]http://www.mercerrestaurantgroup.com/how-to-open-a-restauran...

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#376

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

mercutio2 wrote: post #366
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not elitism at all. There is just a lack of what people commonly call culture in less populated areas. Greater concentration of people leads to greater specialization and a greater diversity of interests. For example, when Id return to my Midwestern hometown during college break and Id be dissapointed by the local "Mexican"(Cheese, nacho cheese, doritos, and jalaoenos) pizza. It just stands to reason that the mor…

I love urban high culture, so I'm a cheerleader for what I think you're trying to champion here, but I think most of what you just described is precisely cultural elitism. It's quite possible to square traditional urbanism's affection for multiculturalism and an affection for artistic and culinary excellence, but it takes some nuanced language to express why those aren't in conflict. Embracing cultural elitism while…

That wasn't the best response, but I think it's indicative of how urban high culture often becomes conflated with elitism. As I reread it, it appears that I was being dismissive of my hometown while trying not to be.

First, let's be clear with our terms here. "Multiculturalism" is a heavily loaded term. Despite its Judeo-Christian heritage I would argue that the United States does not operate as a multicultural nation-state. Rather, it is more of a ethnically diverse unicultural society in that the population to a broad degree does share a common language, certain American beliefs and values, and have a unique optimistic view of the future that I've found rare in my travels...the so-called "melting-pot". A good example of a multicultural state is Iraq where multiculturalism is clearly established in policy at the federal level as the Kurds, Shia, and Sunni live in an uneasy alliance, separate into ethnic ghetto-states/territories with relatively little inter-mixing, and have vastly different agendas for the future of their country (Kurds wanting to create their own state, etc.)

After rethinking it, I believe that population density is only correlated to the amount of culture, not the cause of it. Cities like Taos, Santa Fe, and Santa Cruz have a high degree of appreciation for the arts despite being outside dense, metro city centers. I believe that openness and tolerance to unfamiliar ideas is the driver behind culture. It is also a necessary requirement for diverse urban centers, which is why you find a large amount of culture there, including the small town cultures that emigrants bring with them.

The easiest way for me to put it is this: No matter how small where you come from is or no matter how esoteric your interests are, there is some sort of meetup for all the things in a LA or NYC.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#377

Post by Ericson2314 »

Classic example of trends vs facts in journalism.

SF chronical article today (like any of you read that hah!) talks about recession-level net migration in the Bay Area last year. Meanwhile in NY prices have supposedly declined (can only site annecdotes and others claims unfortunately).

The predicted future is already here.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#378

Post by humanrebar »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #376
mercutio2 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love urban high culture, so I'm a cheerleader for what I think you're trying to champion here, but I think most of what you just described is precisely cultural elitism. It's quite possible to square traditional urbanism's affection for multiculturalism and an affection for artistic and culinary excellence, but it takes some nuanced language to express why those aren't in conflict. Embracing cultural elitism while…

That wasn't the best response, but I think it's indicative of how urban high culture often becomes conflated with elitism. As I reread it, it appears that I was being dismissive of my hometown while trying not to be. First, let's be clear with our terms here. "Multiculturalism" is a heavily loaded term. Despite its Judeo-Christian heritage I would argue that the United States does not operate as a multicultural natio…

> ...there is some sort of meetup for all the things in a LA or NYC.

For your kind of things. In NYC, it's harder to find great snowboarding clubs, demolition derbies, Baptist churches, bass fishing, tacos, and BBQ places. I've been to a mule rodeo before. Haven't heard of something like that in LA.

Not all of those things are my bag of chips, but they're all "culture". Some "culture" either requires less population density or hasn't found a foothold in the coastal mega-cities for whatever reason.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#379

Post by humanrebar »

mercutio2 wrote: post #365
humanrebar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means "culture" is a dog whistle referencing some sort of elitism.

It's certainly elitism. Dog whistle, I don't think so. More of an elision of the implied "high" in high culture. Point taken that you like small town culture, though.

> Point taken that you like small town culture, though.

I don't especially. I appreciate it. And I appreciate urban culture. I just find the "everyone knows cities are better" meme is really inaccurate.

It's weirdly dismissive of other cultures as well, which is weird considering how much urban centers want to value diversity. People will read 30 page New Yorker pieces about Botswana or listen to an hour or pan flute music before way before they'll take time to acknowledge that there's culture in Tennessee that's worthwhile, even if it's not their cup of tea (which should be obvious because Nashville, but not everyone's as well-heeled as they think they are).

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#380

Post by [deleted] »

pantalaimon wrote: post #158
coldpie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and to hear them tell it, living in a suburb and driving a car is about the worst thing imaginable Motor vehicle accidents are the largest cause of death for people in the US under the age of 24 so it is, arguably, the worst thing imaginable ;) https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html

Also true for the environment, both ecologically and culturally.

[deleted]
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