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Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

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Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#361

Post by bpicolo »

AJ007 wrote: post #26
geff82 wrote: post #4

Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. As long as there is a good net connection, it could be anywhere in the world. Let's concentrate on the US for a moment. Why can't a successful startup not be in Dallas, Amarillo, Miami or Des Moines? Talented people already move from one coast to the other, so they could as well move to any other p…

This book does a good job of explaining why: https://www.amazon.com/New-Geography-Jobs-Enrico-Moretti/dp/... Pretty much it is a networking effect issue. The same reason why you are posting this on hackernews instead of reddit. Physical proximity matters a lot, even when work is digital.

Ordered a copy. Thanks for the suggestion! I've been looking to read a bit more non-fiction :)

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#362

Post by JimboOmega »

kingnothing wrote: post #207
JimboOmega wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the city well enough to be sure, but traditionally it's transportation - back in the day as a link between the Mississippi and Great Lakes systems, then as a huge rail hub (cattle from the west would get repackaged and shipped on to the East), and most recently O'Hare (busiest airport in the world).

Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world and has been for almost 20 years.

Correction - sixth busiest. I posted too early (as in, I looked it up but misread it, because I was't fully awake)

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#363

Post by fallingfrog »

prewett wrote: post #255
fallingfrog wrote: post #223

Well, of course, no number that represents a physical quantity can go up forever.. neither electric charge, nor information, nor energy, or mass, nor money. Yeah I'm being a bit nitpicky I guess.

Well, since I'm good at contrarian nitpickiness, I'm going to argue that it can. Mass can increase forever in a black hole, and if you keep accelerating, you get heavier and heavier so that you can never actually reach the speed of light. I guess you could argue that black holes will eventually run out of matter, and you would run out of accelerant, though. Conductivity is infinite in super-conductors (i.e. resistanc…

ok, so there are certain functions that keep rising forever but are still bounded above. So what I mean is that physical extensive quantities are all bounded above. Black holes will run out of matter, and there is only so much accelerant in the universe. Like you said. Conductivity is not an extensive physical quantity like mass or energy.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#364

Post by fallingfrog »

dragonwriter wrote: post #259
fallingfrog wrote: post #223

Well, of course, no number that represents a physical quantity can go up forever.. neither electric charge, nor information, nor energy, or mass, nor money. Yeah I'm being a bit nitpicky I guess.

> Well, of course, no number that represents a physical quantity can go up forever.. Money isn't a physical quantity, though it can be represented by physical tokens; and, yes, a measure of a physical quantity can go up forever if the physical quantity is continuously (rather than quantum) valued. It may even be able to go up without bound whether it is quantized or not (which is different than going up forever), dep…

I think you need to look up "forever" in the dictionary! I'm not saying a long time, I'm saying forever, which is different. I mean the reducto ad absurdium would be, the sun is going to burn out, the universe is going to suffer heat death. The question is, given that rents will stop rising at some point, what will the constraint be that actually stops the rise?

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#365

Post by mercutio2 »

humanrebar wrote: post #286
derefr wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to use "culture" to refer, more often than not, to the local availability of global culture-production top-dogs. For example, New York has "fashion culture", because it's a place where you can expect to run into people who aren't just into fashion, but who lead and dictate the world's fashion. In other words, people want access to socially-dominant individuals. It's probably some sort of backwards instinc…

That means "culture" is a dog whistle referencing some sort of elitism.

It's certainly elitism. Dog whistle, I don't think so. More of an elision of the implied "high" in high culture.

Point taken that you like small town culture, though.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#366

Post by mercutio2 »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #357
humanrebar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means "culture" is a dog whistle referencing some sort of elitism.

Its not elitism at all. There is just a lack of what people commonly call culture in less populated areas. Greater concentration of people leads to greater specialization and a greater diversity of interests. For example, when Id return to my Midwestern hometown during college break and Id be dissapointed by the local "Mexican"(Cheese, nacho cheese, doritos, and jalaoenos) pizza. It just stands to reason that the mor…

I love urban high culture, so I'm a cheerleader for what I think you're trying to champion here, but I think most of what you just described is precisely cultural elitism.

It's quite possible to square traditional urbanism's affection for multiculturalism and an affection for artistic and culinary excellence, but it takes some nuanced language to express why those aren't in conflict.

Embracing cultural elitism while denying it linguistically doesn't really help make the argument.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#367

Post by brilliantcode »

gabbo wrote: post #311
brilliantcode wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's around $126,000 USD /year in Seattle. [1] They didn't bother listing Vancouver because the salary here is so painfully low with entry level software engineering positions regularly listing $40,000 CAD /year or $30,000 USD /year, which is what a Starbucks barista in Seattle clears. As your experience goes up, so should your salary right? Not in Vancouver. It's around a couple hundred dollars per month in after-ta…

Your point is 100% correct, but IMO that link understates Seattle earnings potential. Probably doesn't include equity/cash bonus, which will happen a lot in Seattle and not so much in Vancouver. Big tech company jobs in Seattle are extremely common, and a big tech company job in Seattle will pay you much more than $126k/year USD when you include stock/cash bonus. Especially a few years into your career. If you're wil…

I don't think such salaries are sustainable but you are absolutely right in that Vancouverites are taking not a pay cut but a reduction in quality of life overall.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#368

Post by fallingfrog »

fallingfrog wrote: post #223

Well, of course, no number that represents a physical quantity can go up forever.. neither electric charge, nor information, nor energy, or mass, nor money. Yeah I'm being a bit nitpicky I guess.

You know, I didn't realize that saying that the universe is finite was such a controversial statement. According to current science, it is. And since the total value of all the money that exists can't exceed the purchase price of the universe, the total value of all money is finite. So therefore rent is finite. If you can't agree on that- then you're using magical thinking!

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#369

Post by nwah1 »

davidf18 wrote: post #296
nwah1 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of gold has risen considerably over the years. There's no particular reason to suspect that this trend will stop, since it is tied in with rising levels of production. It is quite possible to create an artificial scarcity of gold, and thus gold would be higher than it should be. But it would be ridiculous to claim "gold can't go up forever" and that to achieve affordable gold we only need to remove the arti…

> "It may be desirable that we remove the artificial scarcity, but it is also a distraction from the core question at hand." I respectfully disagree and so does Harvard Economist Edward Glaeser who has written extensively about this as does FT columnist and economist Tim Harford (as explained in his book, "The Undercover Economist" as does Steve Beyer who has written about this in the NYT and Forbes as well as other…

Scarcity is a term that is relative to demand. If you have a trillion widgets, but a quadrillion customers desperately want them, you still have a major scarcity.

Not all of the land in cities is desirable. Parts of Manhattan are clearly far more desirable than others. And the people who want these prime locations far outnumber the availability of them. Not everyone can own a lot in Times Square, etc.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#370

Post by mercutio2 »

Arizhel wrote: post #63
geff82 wrote: post #4

Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. As long as there is a good net connection, it could be anywhere in the world. Let's concentrate on the US for a moment. Why can't a successful startup not be in Dallas, Amarillo, Miami or Des Moines? Talented people already move from one coast to the other, so they could as well move to any other p…

A lot of people don't want to live in boring, conservative places like Amarillo and Des Moines. More importantly, tech company executives and managers really don't want to live there. The workers have to work on-site with managers, so the workers obviously can't live there either. Everyone has to be co-located in the same place.

Have you ever been to Des Moines? Not picking on you specifically, but boring and conservative aren't the adjectives I'd use for it. It's possibly slightly more conservative than Ann Arbor or Madison, but the area around Drake feels like a college town to me when I visit.
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