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Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

angularjs.blogspot.com

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Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#71

Post by hccampos »

tomelders wrote: post #59

I'll be that guy. I'm sure the Angular team are great people, and they're clearly talented devs... but stay away from Angular. It doesn't help with the problems you will actually face. Typed Javascript is a cargo cult. Angular just plain confusing for no apparent benefit. Dependency injection is bizarre. The distinction between modules, components, and directive is unnecessary. The Javascript community in general is…

I have to agree with your general point.

However, to me it's not really that Angular is bad in itself, it's more that the alternatives (React/Inferno/Preact combined with redux or MobX) are just superior in so many ways, and by a huge margin.

Once you've done React with TS/TSX, with type checked components all the way, great code completion, incredible performance...it's hard to go back.

Angular's components would be ok if React didn't allow you to declare functional components in just a few lines of code, create HOC to decorate exiting components, etc. Angular's components are certainly better than Angular 1's but when you compare it with what you can do with React it just can't compete.

Honestly, from my experience, there is not a single thing that Angular does better than React and friends. Not a single one. It does things better than Angular 1/Ember/Backbone but that's it.

I think this is a bit like the solar/renewables revolution that is happening in energy. There are more efficient combustion engines, filters and whatnot, but when you compare them with the other paradigm, it falls short.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#72

Post by onion2k »

otto_ortega wrote: post #57

VueJS is the only of these JavaScript UI Libraries/Frameworks I can stand... The only one whose syntax doesn't make my eyes bleed!... I can't wait for Alibaba's Weex to be officially released so Vue can be used for developing mobile apps too. Reusing components across platforms and the web is the only reason why I would like to jump into the JS wagon!

The only one whose syntax doesn't make my eyes bleed.

To me that sounds like choosing a tool based on the experience it gives the developer rather than the experience it gives the user. That's entirely the wrong way to pick what to build an app with. User experience is far more important.

(That's not a comment about Angular or Vue. They're both great, and you should use whichever is best for the web app you're writing.)

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#73

Post by hccampos »

regeiger101 wrote: post #48

Will I be able to build on this platform with pure JavaScript (rather than TypeScript)? What kept me from Angular 2 adoption was its emphasis on TS.

If you don't like TS stay away from Angular. In fact, just stay away from Angular, even if you like TS. You will save yourself a lot of headaches...but hey with Angular you might be able to hire some cheap/junior programmers who are familiar with OOP or move some backend guys who like C#/Java to do frontend.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#74

Post by bunkat »

tomelders wrote: post #59

I'll be that guy. I'm sure the Angular team are great people, and they're clearly talented devs... but stay away from Angular. It doesn't help with the problems you will actually face. Typed Javascript is a cargo cult. Angular just plain confusing for no apparent benefit. Dependency injection is bizarre. The distinction between modules, components, and directive is unnecessary. The Javascript community in general is…

Totally agree. I really don't get how anybody can take a look at the mess at https://angular.io/docs/js/latest/api/ and think to themselves, yep - that's for me! Our first version was done in Angular v1 and we bit the bullet and converted over to React and never looked back.

No more factories, or dependency injection, or crazy template language that is never quite expressive enough, and no more digest cycles to optimize.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#76

Post by hccampos »

hesarenu wrote: post #68
tomelders wrote: post #59

I'll be that guy. I'm sure the Angular team are great people, and they're clearly talented devs... but stay away from Angular. It doesn't help with the problems you will actually face. Typed Javascript is a cargo cult. Angular just plain confusing for no apparent benefit. Dependency injection is bizarre. The distinction between modules, components, and directive is unnecessary. The Javascript community in general is…

As a longtime redux user i am all into Mobx now. It is simpler then redux.

For most apps, yes I think MobX is easier. However, both of them, combined with React/Preact are hugely superior to Angular.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#77

Post by cormacrelf »

hccampos wrote: post #71
tomelders wrote: post #59

I'll be that guy. I'm sure the Angular team are great people, and they're clearly talented devs... but stay away from Angular. It doesn't help with the problems you will actually face. Typed Javascript is a cargo cult. Angular just plain confusing for no apparent benefit. Dependency injection is bizarre. The distinction between modules, components, and directive is unnecessary. The Javascript community in general is…

I have to agree with your general point. However, to me it's not really that Angular is bad in itself, it's more that the alternatives (React/Inferno/Preact combined with redux or MobX) are just superior in so many ways, and by a huge margin. Once you've done React with TS/TSX, with type checked components all the way, great code completion, incredible performance...it's hard to go back. Angular's components would be…

The definitive answer to this question is: it sells itself better to managers. The truth is that for many good and bad reasons, people with decision-making power are scared of dependencies.

My company uprooted a few months of React development because Angular (2) comes with batteries included and we wouldn't have to rely on third-party stuff to fill in the gaps. The amount of stuff you get is... not actually that much, but it's enough to sell it. Of course, our new package.json is just as long, if not longer using Angular than it was before, and I've spent arguably more time doing setup (before @angular/cli stabilised) than I ever did with React. The whole @angular/router situation with module loading is silly, who wants to load modules via strings? Yes, the default batteries-included parts work with each other very well for the basics, but what about power and flexibility?

React could go a long way in this regard just by having a few more official ways of doing things and offering a few tools straight up (a @react/router for instance) while still selling the just-part-of-a-wonderful-ecosystem thing. React is so much better at satisfying real development needs, like the hyper-extensibility via functional composition and the super-DRY code you can get out of it very quickly, that proving its worth in ways that are only superficially important would be well worth it.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#79

Post by cormacrelf »

robwormald wrote: post #30
philplckthun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Typescript can sometime have a mind of its own, but it's certainly an enrichment and with Rx everything just falls into place. At this point it's hard to ignore that all the UI libraries are just paradigms and patterns, and how we use them is getting less important. These days I just want to write Component-style UI code, and I'll be fine. Similarl things can be said about RxJS, but I think since it's a diffe…

We've got some really cool ideas to make Rx really first class in Angular. It's already pretty deeply integrated, but with a little work, it'll be awesome.

What are they? I've been developing with the @ngrx suite, and it's been mostly pretty smooth, what more do you want? I would like to see a piece of documentation that lays out explicitly what happens when you pass around Observables. Hot ones, cold ones, when the auto-unsubscribe clicks in, whether

    this.property$ = some_observable();
    this.property$.subscribe(fn);
... will auto-unsubscribe (does it? who knows... try it?), what happens when you async pipe and its interaction with ChangeDetection...

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#80

Post by hccampos »

cormacrelf wrote: post #77
hccampos wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with your general point. However, to me it's not really that Angular is bad in itself, it's more that the alternatives (React/Inferno/Preact combined with redux or MobX) are just superior in so many ways, and by a huge margin. Once you've done React with TS/TSX, with type checked components all the way, great code completion, incredible performance...it's hard to go back. Angular's components would be…

The definitive answer to this question is: it sells itself better to managers. The truth is that for many good and bad reasons, people with decision-making power are scared of dependencies. My company uprooted a few months of React development because Angular (2) comes with batteries included and we wouldn't have to rely on third-party stuff to fill in the gaps. The amount of stuff you get is... not actually that muc…

This makes me feel sad. As you said, maybe React could do more when it comes to packaging things up. I think Create React App is a good step in that direction but there is still work to be done.
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