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Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

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Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#71

Post by gsnedders »

galdosdi wrote: post #68
elahd wrote: post #15

I've been in standoffs with Uber/Lyft drivers where the driver calls or texts me saying they don't want to pick me up for whatever reason and demand that I cancel the hail. Drivers don't want to be the ones who cancel because canceling reduces their rating. I don't want to cancel because I both don't want the hit to my rating and I don't want to have to follow up with Uber/Lyft to request a cancellation fee refund. L…

Wow that's egregious. One thing I'm curious about -- what leverage does the driver have when trying to strongarm you into cancelling? Why do you end up giving in? > I eventually gave in and canceled the request.

Presumably the inability to request again until they are dropped off or the request cancelled?

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#72

Post by galdosdi »

valuearb wrote: post #58
marcosdumay wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulating behavior is completely different from regulating entry on market. Besides, I fail to see how the GP wasn't victim of fraud. He may have better luck if he went to the police instead of a commercial regulator.

Not really. Let's say Taxi authority requires $20,000 bond from every driver to cover potential fines. Now you have drivers who can't afford to post the bond, you've reduced supply and increased prices. Most any regulation is going to have some effect on supply, it's why they should always pass a cost/benefit analysis before implementation.

BALONEY. You'd have insurance companies putting up the bonds for the drivers in exchange for a very reasonable and minor fee. I had to put up a several thousand dollar bond when I became a notary public many years ago in another state (I'm no longer one) and it cost under $50 to have a bond posted by some insurance company.

You were the one who brought up bonds though. No need for that, you can enforce regulations just fine without them. Your TLC driver's license can function as a bond -- if you don't comply with rules, suspend it.

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#73

Post by galdosdi »

elahd wrote: post #44
koolba wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I submitted the driver's text messages to the T&LC as evidence and eventually got a phone hearing -- Lyft and the driver were required to appear in person. Lyft failed to appear and got a $1,000 fine. The driver showed up but was found not responsible for lack of evidence. It was a complete waste of time. Any explanation for the "lack of evidence" piece? Seems like the record of text messages would cover that. Or i…

> Any explanation for the "lack of evidence" piece? https://www.dropbox.com/s/pasguqsrziz4uul/TLC%20Decision.pdf... The hearing officer seemed totally unfamiliar with the mechanics of both of ride sharing and texting. He fundamentally misunderstood the nature of my complaint and the origin/context of the text message.

Fascinating. I just read your PDF in full. My impression/suspicion is that the decision author DOES fundamentally understand texting, ride sharing, and your complaint, but carefully feigned the right misunderstandings (eg insisting that since the driver's text was proxied through Lyft, it had to be assumed that that was "Lyft talking" even though that makes little sense) was able to swing the outcome in a way to protect the driver and put all the blame on Lyft.

It's just intuition so maybe I'm wrong, but it's interesting if true, if the T&LC has a bias towards protecting drivers. I can imagine many ways that might have come about

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#74

Post by galdosdi »

henvic wrote: post #4

Once I asked for a Uber driver on my corporate account during a business trip and the driver cancelled on me. I asked for the cancellation fee back and got $5 on my account. Wait, what? Weren't my business supposed to get the $5 fee back? I am just an employee there and even if I was the point of contact or the owner, it's not how things should work. I just earned $5 (that was probably charged) for being cancelled on…

> I bet the contracts they have for corporate accounts make it clear (or else companies would be mad at them already) so it's not my problem, but it's weird nonetheless.

I wouldn't be so sure. They may just not have noticed / not care that much.

If it had happened to me, at my current employer, I would definitely have at least reported it to my finance dept. (This is somewhat employer specific though -- my employer has a convenient system already in place for what happens if you accidentally charge a personal purchase to a corporate card, and has a noticeable general culture of being careful and scrupulous and "doing the right thing"; at an employer lacking that, I'd probably just ignore it as you did, figuring I'd be more of a bother by even bringing it up)

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#75

Post by galdosdi »

CPLX wrote: post #10

There's a lot of reasons to hate Uber these days but I'm not sure this is one of them. The problem with cancellations is real, I have to cancel rides constantly because I live and work in Brooklyn Heights/ DUMBO and the app just can't seem to get the hang of the river, the bridges, and the expressway that runs through our neighborhood. It's pretty much routine to get assigned a car and then watch as it speeds over yo…

WOW, are you serious? After all these huge amounts of venture capital, Uber still uses bird's distance rather than (easily obtainable) estimated travel time in all areas?

What a joke.

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#76

Post by galdosdi »

leephillips wrote: post #29

What's wrong with taxis? I've taken plenty of cabs, but never an Uber or Lyft. In a city you can easily flag them down, or find a number and phone for one. Many cab companies have had phone apps for years, too. If you prefer Uber, can you explain why? Because there are tons of complaints here about the company.

Two kinds of cities -- cities that already had good cab service before ridesharing took off (like yours, and mine) and cities that didn't (and ruralish areas, which, at least in the US, essentially had no taxi service at all).

That's why people are so polarized on whether Uber and company are the messiah or the devil. It just tells you which of the two kinds of cities/areas they lived in.

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#77

Post by galdosdi »

leephillips wrote: post #64
dreamcompiler wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to the drawbacks everybody else has mentioned, with taxis I often got a driver with no familiarity with the city, no GPS, and a very rudimentary command of English. So the ride consisted of me using my phone to figure out a route and using hand signals for "turn here." (Pre-smartphone, it was even worse.) And this was in NYC where taxis are actually good.* None of this nonsense happens with Uber or Lyft.…

When I was young and still lived in my home town of NYC I got into a cab to go to Grand Central. The driver spoke no English and had no idea where that was. I used gestures to get us there. So I know. Can one expect Uber to be better?

That's egregious. How long ago was that? Was it a legitimate cab?

Until very recently, NYC's TLC required drivers to pass tests to prove geographical knowledge and basic English.

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#78

Post by galdosdi »

thriftwy wrote: post #20

I think that decision to withhold the destination of the ride from drivers was a very bad idea they should repeal. They wanted to be sure that drivers don't choose convenient riders and leave less convenient ones unserved, but a) it didn't work, only introduced this "you cancel, no, you" game after destination becomes apparent, and b) opportunistic drivers can no longer give a ride to people who go in the same direct…

In order to do that, they'd have to increase the price for rides to less attractive (to drivers) destinations. A trip that ends somewhere unlikely to have another customer available (like an outlying residential area in the evening) is way less attractive than an identical time/distance trip to somewhere with lots of likely fares (a central business district, for example)

So, if drivers can see the destinations, they will simply avoid ever picking up jobs for "bad" destinations, unless properly incentivized.

Customers going to "unpopular" destinations are essentially being subsidized at the expense of drivers and customers going to "popular" destinations. If you remove the destination blinding AND don't bother to increase the price for "unpopular" destinations, people trying to go to "unpopular" destinations will find they can never get a car, even worse than now

Anyway, I agree they shouldn't be distorting the price market like that, it just creates frustrations for both sides

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#79

Post by elahd »

rwmj wrote: post #37
elahd wrote: post #15

I've been in standoffs with Uber/Lyft drivers where the driver calls or texts me saying they don't want to pick me up for whatever reason and demand that I cancel the hail. Drivers don't want to be the ones who cancel because canceling reduces their rating. I don't want to cancel because I both don't want the hit to my rating and I don't want to have to follow up with Uber/Lyft to request a cancellation fee refund. L…

I wouldn't say the $1000 dollar fine was a waste of time. It seems like a good result (not for you in particular, but for taxi users in general).

Yes, but... they were fined for failure to appear, not for any wrongdoing, so no precedent is set (if that's even a concept in T&LC court).

Re: Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

#80

Post by elahd »

galdosdi wrote: post #68
elahd wrote: post #15

I've been in standoffs with Uber/Lyft drivers where the driver calls or texts me saying they don't want to pick me up for whatever reason and demand that I cancel the hail. Drivers don't want to be the ones who cancel because canceling reduces their rating. I don't want to cancel because I both don't want the hit to my rating and I don't want to have to follow up with Uber/Lyft to request a cancellation fee refund. L…

Wow that's egregious. One thing I'm curious about -- what leverage does the driver have when trying to strongarm you into cancelling? Why do you end up giving in? > I eventually gave in and canceled the request.

Their leverage is that you can't request another ride until either the rider or driver cancels the current request.

I was late to work and wanted to request another Lyft driver -- Uber was surging. After I canceled the hail, Lyft starting surging, as well. I ended up taking the subway to work.

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