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Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

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Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#31
post #3

One thing I struggle with is measurement of progress. For example, what Google is allowing here with Howard U is obviously good for the AA community. However, is Google in general doing things that are good or bad for AAs in general? It's difficult to say. Excessive advertising can be used to poor people's disadvantage by creating more debt by encouraging more unnecessary expenses. AAs consist of a disproportionally…

I agree, measuring diversity is a problem.

But in this case? It seems like they're trying to optimize the pipeline from college into the work force. It seems like it would be trivially measurable.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#32
post #28

I'm very happy to see this. I grew up in a town that, before I was born, decided to actively integrate (from being an historically all white, wealthy suburb) and I'm certain I'm better off for growing up in a diverse community. I'm in mountain view now and it's all "silicon valley white", and something actively needs to be done. I worry when I realize my kid can go a week or more without seeing a black person, and I'…

> I'm certain I'm better off for growing up in a diverse community How do you know this?

"Better off" seems subjective, especially when looking at the particulars.

I didn't grow up in a diverse community, and living in one now I certainly feel the lack. How do you quantify a cultural divide? How do you quantify what it means to you?

Given your comment, I can guess, but that would be rude.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#33

I'm very happy to see this. I grew up in a town that, before I was born, decided to actively integrate (from being an historically all white, wealthy suburb) and I'm certain I'm better off for growing up in a diverse community. I'm in mountain view now and it's all "silicon valley white", and something actively needs to be done. I worry when I realize my kid can go a week or more without seeing a black person, and I'…

> I'm certain I'm better off for growing up in a diverse community.

I'm curious how much the internet has helped bridge this gap today and whether this idea of diversity through government-backed forced integration policies are really relevant/useful anymore. It seems very difficult to grow up in a culturally homogeneous environment today, you'd basically have to be a Luddite to accomplish that.

That plus living in a city like most young people are starting to do today, I find exposure to different cultures to be highly accessible with little investment. This is not really the result of forced integration policies but simply through technology, market options (restaurants, entertainment, etc) and proximity in dense housing areas.

It's interesting that not long after the Civil Rights act passed (which included legislation to make mandatory increases in housing and school integration) that there was a big migration from cities to suburbanization starting in the 1970s - reducing integration in both schools and housing. Most people falsely believed 'white flight' to be a cultural thing when if fact it was largely the result of regulatory policy making. There's a great book about how local government policies was the largest cause of this shift towards suburbia: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1933115157/

I've read that statistically today's schools in the US are even more segregated than even before the civil rights act. Yet one could argue that despite this the young generation is the most open and accepting to other cultures than ever before.

So I'm not sure that (mandatory) integration policies are a necessary construct in order to improve social conditions and relationships between communities/races - as much as it used to be. The solution may simply be to reverse a lot of the existing legislation that pushed so many communities away from dense naturally integrated urban areas to small towns and suburbs.

Trying to improve economic and quality of education via integration is another question (I'm mostly looking at cultural considerations). Although I've also heard of mostly black charter schools in poor communities doing as well as public schools in upper class neighbourhoods. So, again, on the surface that seems to be more about access to quality services rather than racial integration.

You have to be careful not to mistake the chicken for the egg.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, Google could just simply give internships to those at HBCU's, an action one may see as definitely positive. This is a straw man. Google isn't doing that. Google and Howard are providing instruction.

Google is doing that (not exactly for HBCUs, but for underrepresented subpopulations) https://www.google.com/about/careers/students/engres.html

Which is why having additional instruction and additional acclimation to the Silicon Valley environment, which Google and Howard are doing here, is so important - to creating a culture where diverse engineers can thrive.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buuuut this isn't China. It's America. Ethnic diversity is part of the DNA here.

Buuuut the implicit claim is that not being around diversity is somehow bad for you.

I think the claim is actually this: not being around sufficient levels of diversity is somehow bad for you.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#36

I'm very happy to see this. I grew up in a town that, before I was born, decided to actively integrate (from being an historically all white, wealthy suburb) and I'm certain I'm better off for growing up in a diverse community. I'm in mountain view now and it's all "silicon valley white", and something actively needs to be done. I worry when I realize my kid can go a week or more without seeing a black person, and I'…

How do you know that everyone is "silicon valley white"? Perhaps they identify as black, or hispanic, or ticuna, or martian?

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buuuut this isn't China. It's America. Ethnic diversity is part of the DNA here.

Where are the "all" hispanic outreach programs in tech?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/14/to-diversify-work-fo...

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buuuut this isn't China. It's America. Ethnic diversity is part of the DNA here.

No, it isn't. Sure, in some parts of the country, it is. But in other parts of the country, it isn't. It's part of the DNA basically if you only look at big cities on the coasts.

big cities on the coasts, and the Southwest, and the Southeast, so, everywhere except the Plains states

Also, Palo Alto is a big city on the coast.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#39

Where are the all Hispanic Schools? How about some Hispanic related "campuses?"

Since the USA does not have a long history of legal segregation against Hispanics, there are no Hispanic colleges.

However, there are Hispanic Serving Insitutions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic-serving_institution

I also wonder how much you cared about Hispanic schools before you heard about someone helping a Black school. Why the sudden interest?

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#40
post #3

One thing I struggle with is measurement of progress. For example, what Google is allowing here with Howard U is obviously good for the AA community. However, is Google in general doing things that are good or bad for AAs in general? It's difficult to say. Excessive advertising can be used to poor people's disadvantage by creating more debt by encouraging more unnecessary expenses. AAs consist of a disproportionally…

Wow, seriously? Google is out to get poor people?

Let's not talk about how Google made access to an entire world of information 100x easier and cheaper, so anyone with a cheap tablet or phone can get information you used to need a $1k encyclopedia for.

Let's not talk about how Google drove Android, a platform which gave a huge number of people internet access by giving them $100 phones or tablets.

Let's not talk about how Google has (done its best) to scan every book ever written to make books available online and free.

Google has done vast amounts to level the playing field, making top-tier services like Gmail and Google maps free, where previously people had to pay for Garmin navigation or Outlook or w/e.

The kind of argument the OP makes is shallow, petty, and out to use a hammer for every grudge. Yeah, Google makes money via ads. No, that doesn't mean they are racist, sexist, or whatever the hell you feel like making up just to complain about advertising.

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