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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#391

Post by conanbatt »

bante wrote: post #363
conanbatt wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im pretty sure that even after adjustment, savings rates for software engineers in SF is much higher than in Berlin. There are many perks to Berlin over SF, but salaries and net income are not it.

So why are you even comparing the two and not e.g. working for Google in San Francisco and Zurich?

Berlin is a start-up hub, and its a place i know. I cant speak for Zurich from first hand experience.

Im just emphasizing that the fact that europe has benefits, it does not necessarily (or likely) outweigh the difference in salary from one to the other. You are certainly taxed more by a lower wage and by a higher tax rate that could compensate ubering every day and private schooling.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#392

Post by conanbatt »

cozicoolmail wrote: post #335
conanbatt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

"Not to mentioned that people criticizing work-life balance of engineers in the us haven't visited google offices." Google and other tech companies in the U.S having nice offices doesn't mean the work life balance of Googlers is something to envy. Probably the opposite actually (three meals a day makes you stay there for dinner, nap rooms to let you stay even later). Not a great work life balance. Source: know Google…

As far as I saw, the ambiance was pretty relaxed, and there were plenty of benefits like gyms, music studios, hardware shops, etc to delve into hobbies. Im sure there are people working 12 hours a day, and im sure the vast majority barely work their 8.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#393

Post by prolly_a_moron »

coldtea wrote: post #197
yummyfajitas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the factors you cite mean the number I provided is an overestimate. If you have any evidence we work harder than before, cite it. Even so I'm sure they will be an increase in Joe Average's consumption, but is that because Joe Average has more buying power than a worker in the 60s, or because they have to spend more to stay afloat, as everything's more expensive, That's definitely not the case, since the numbers I…

> That's definitely not the case, since the numbers I cited are adjusted for inflation. Inflation adjustment doesn't take into account costs that are prevalent in an era but totally absent in another: like internet access, cellphone bills, and such. Nor how much one not puts into their retirement account / savings to spend on daily needs. If it was just supposed to be relative to the past, we would all be content for…

>Inflation adjustment doesn't take into account costs that are prevalent in an era but totally absent in another: like internet access, cellphone bills, and such. Nor how much one not puts into their retirement account / savings to spend on daily needs.

Yes it does. Have you looked at how the BLS calculates the market-basket they use for CPI calculations? It's determined by actual spending by actual people on actual goods. This information is public:

"Knowing that consumers are constantly offered new items to include in their market basket, how do changing market baskets influence the CPI? The answer is not unambiguous and depends on the importance of the change in terms of total expenditures by consumers."

https://www.bls.gov/ore/abstract/st/st950200.htm

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#394

Post by tmccrmck »

vostok wrote: post #127
intended wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is that you are selecting yourself to do things you like, which you just happen to do at the highest level. This was fine in America for a long time, but 1) As colleges degenerate from being an intellectual addition, to a pre requisite for jobs well paying or not 2) several classes of jobs disappear, especially those which could be done by common sense and training It results in posers. People who are high…

> 1) As colleges degenerate from being an intellectual addition, to a pre requisite for jobs well paying or not At least in the Anglosphere, elite colleges were elite finishing schools before they were tickets to middle class elite jobs. I'm not sure that they are degenerating in the way that you imply. It's also not clear to me that academic pursuits are somehow better than commercial pursuits. They're certainly not…

> I feel like I know more people who are interested in doing math, but are not doing math because the job market is not kind to those who do math. Indeed I am one of those people. I do agree that I took a somewhat cynical approach.

Replacing math with CS would make more sense in the context of the conversation. There are many 18 year olds today who are saying "I guess I'll study computer science".

When I took the first semester CS course at my alma mater the class size was roughly 300 students. Now it's regularly 1200+.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#395

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Brendinooo wrote: post #316
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surprises me that Americans don't even get Christmas (or the “holidays”) off. Would the religious right not support that?

What do you mean when you say "Americans"? Wikipedia says that 94% of businesses offer paid time off for 12/25[0]. Even Walmart is closed on Christmas! What is your implication, that the government should require all businesses to be closed on Christmas Day? Does that happen where you're from? >Would the religious right not support that? Perhaps you have a bit of a boogeyman image of the 'religious right'. Regardless…

> What is your implication, that the government should require all businesses to be closed on Christmas Day?

No. But if the government requires employers to offer a day or two of paid leave, employees could get Christmas or a nearby day off.

As you point out though, this may be moot as most employers offer this anyway. But other holidays might be a good target.

> Perhaps you have a bit of a boogeyman image of the 'religious right'.

Huh? I was appealing to why they might support something, not oppose it.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#396

Post by prolly_a_moron »

brokenmasonjars wrote: post #12
cbanek wrote: post #2

Seems like in America it's hard to win. Either get paid not nearly enough and struggle to make ends meet, or get a high paid high stress job, still work all day and all night. Maybe we just have too much of that protestant work ethic?

I don't know.. I work about 15 hours a month opening up positions and closing them with my brokerage account. Have been doing this for a good 12 years or so now. Granted the earlier years were fraught with hard learned lessons that any newbee would make without proper mentorship. To me, it just seems like too many see that initial hamster wheel and jump on without thinking much about things. Then again, they lack pro…

>I work about 15 hours a month opening up positions and closing them with my brokerage account.

If you're going to brag online about your investment performance, post your anonymized brokerage statements. Otherwise, you're just another person who's full of it.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#397

Post by d--b »

jharger wrote: post #381
rsync wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that in many cases working hard (as in building up a startup) does indeed give people the opportunity to rise in society." I have never seen that to be a problem. How would propose that we "fix" that problem ?

I think the parent's sentence structure is a bit confusing, but I read that as: "The problem is, that while in many cases working hard (as in building up a startup) does indeed give people the opportunity to rise in society, it is not true in all cases at all; so the negative statement 'if you are struggling you didn't try enough' is completely flawed." i.e. the problem is that hard work does not always (or even not…

correct, sorry for the poor syntax...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#398

Post by mcguire »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #118
wiz21c wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe about really winning/loosing is inequality. I generally think that inequality is bad for populations (you may disagree, but usually, those in favor of inequality are those on the right side of it)

I recommend reading: http://paulgraham.com/ineq.html Inequality is the result of people earning different amounts, such being compensated in proportion to the value they generate - rather than everyone earning the same irrespective of that. Inequality is the result of reaping the rewards of your own work: someone is more effective, so they earn more. Why is it bad? How can any market economy even function without it?…

The median personal income for all workers over the age of 15 in the US is about about $30,000.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#399

Post by Brendinooo »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #395
Brendinooo wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean when you say "Americans"? Wikipedia says that 94% of businesses offer paid time off for 12/25[0]. Even Walmart is closed on Christmas! What is your implication, that the government should require all businesses to be closed on Christmas Day? Does that happen where you're from? >Would the religious right not support that? Perhaps you have a bit of a boogeyman image of the 'religious right'. Regardless…

> What is your implication, that the government should require all businesses to be closed on Christmas Day? No. But if the government requires employers to offer a day or two of paid leave, employees could get Christmas or a nearby day off. As you point out though, this may be moot as most employers offer this anyway. But other holidays might be a good target. > Perhaps you have a bit of a boogeyman image of the 're…

>Huh? I was appealing to why they might support something, not oppose it.

I might not have read it in the tone you intended, and boogeyman might not have been the right word I was looking for. I'm used to the discussion of religion on this forum having a suspicious or negative tone, so I apologize if I projected that onto you incorrectly.

It seemed strange to me that out of any number of political forces in the US you chose to mention religious right, as though they're this monolithic group that are preventing mandatory holidays and could get it done if they wanted to.

I don't know if it's really even as partisan of an issue in a liberal/conservative or Democrat/Republican sense; it's just not part of the culture here, at least not on the federal level. I'm thinking about blue laws here, because religious influence did translate to mandatory days off for a lot of businesses in times past. But as far as I know, most of that was state-by-state. I'm not aware of federal blue laws, or any kind of federal mandate on holidays.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#400

Post by eeZah7Ux »

J-dawg wrote: post #73
rmc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many of them think that people in Europe have it worse. That the economy would just collapse into African-levels of poverty if there was mandatory paid holidays. This is a danger of American TV shows and movie studios remaking shows for the American audiences. They don't get to see that Europe is mostly a developed place.

Not to disagree with the parent comment (because overall I prefer the European way) but we do have it worse in some ways. Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. I get the feeling that when you're winning at life in America, you're really winning. But when you're losing you're really losing. In Europe the ups and downs of life are more smoothed out.

> much smaller houses

When people spend most of their wake hours in a cubicle smaller than the bedroom where they sleep in something is very wrong.

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