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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#361
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe about really winning/loosing is inequality. I generally think that inequality is bad for populations (you may disagree, but usually, those in favor of inequality are those on the right side of it)

Though weirdly in modern American politics, there's some degree of inversion there, with the "coastal liberal elites" voting for "socialist" healthcare and the unemployed coal miner with black lung disease voting against it.

"Though weirdly in modern American politics, there's some degree of inversion there, with the "coastal liberal elites" voting for "socialist" healthcare and the unemployed coal miner with black lung disease voting against it."

This is not the paradox that people think it is.

If you're a coastal, progressive elite, you've already gone "all in" on an urban, socialized, statist (for good or for bad) social arrangement. You've shifted towards a pole and you might as well keep doubling down on those strategies/policies.

But if you're rural (or, as is the case with most of red-state US, sort-of-semi-rural), you're not down that path at all.

There are costs as well as benefits to social benefits and welfare programs. Many of those costs may be intangible, but they are costs nonetheless. Consider: what if a very large portion of your self esteem and "face" was tied to being self-sufficient in certain realms ?

And so therefore, if you're not already at the urban-progressive-socialized pole of attraction, it makes sense that people resist the costs (and the benefits) of going down that road.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#362
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize your way of life can never become mainstream, right ?

It can act as an additional revenue source thus allowing you to cut on the hours you work per week. If you can train yourself, or find a proper mentor. Though I think a proper mentor is the real bottle neck, so too many try to train themselves and lack the proper knowledge for where to start; too many go to CNBC to start.. If it became mainstream it would just mean more volatility which for me.. volatility is a good…

It's mathematically impossible for everyone to win at gambling. Every you dollar you make is lost by someone else.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#363
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing median salary in Berlin with the high end in the US, and you are ignoring much of the complexities that were already mentioned such as the incredibley high cost of living in San Francisco where google and facebook pay those salaries. I'm in the Boston market and median salary for devs is around 80-90k when you include all skill levels, but every single dev I know has roommates or an hour+ commute int…

Im pretty sure that even after adjustment, savings rates for software engineers in SF is much higher than in Berlin. There are many perks to Berlin over SF, but salaries and net income are not it.

So why are you even comparing the two and not e.g. working for Google in San Francisco and Zurich?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#364

As a European (used to free healthcare, statutory maternity leave, and 25 days paid leave per year) it shocked me on first visiting America how third-world it actually feels regarding what people consider a "normal" work/life balance. People work incredibly hard, long hours and often with very little to show for it. It's surreal.

When I read about the Pressed Steel Car strike of 1909[0] and other various labor conditions of the early 20th century (child labor, 72-hour workweeks, company stores), I think that a 40+ hour work week in front of a desk is pretty civil in comparison. I mean, the Pressed Steel Car factory was supposedly bad even by the standards of the day, but one person dying on average a day? And remember, a lot of people came to…

>was favorable compared to farm work

This, I believe, is a misconception. There's only so much farm work and population increases means work had to be found elsewhere. On top of automation lowering the number of farm hands one needed, and worse, a lot of that work being temporary seasonal work that paid very little. The Grapes of Wrath and The Jungle show the brutality of this period from both urban and rural perspectives.

A lot of urban dwellers in that period would have been fine with farm work. If anything, it was safer and healthier than factory work.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Googler who was involved in comparing pay across Google sites, Zurich was on par with Mountain View in gross pay (and ahead of New York), and after-tax pay was markedly higher in Zurich. While Berlin is a great city, it is very far from being a top-pay city in Europe.

are you swiss? how easy is it for a foreigner to work in zurich?

I was in the London office (until a year ago) and led an engineering team spanning London, Zurich and New York. The majority of Google Zurich's engineers are not Swiss—elsewhere from Europe, from across Asia and many from the US.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#366
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't Europeans pay similar levels of tax to Americans?

Depends on which europeans you mean. The higher taxed countries like the nordics pay mad taxes. I don't mind though because I feel it's well spent (i.e. my attitude towards public spending is that it is usually pretty efficient ). That's probably a big difference to the US where the attitude seems to be that taxes are pretty much a black hole. Tax calc for me: Employer pays $8k Payroll taxes deducted: $2k My gross sa…

>seems to be that taxes are pretty much a black hole.

Our defense and war spending is very much a black hole. I'm sorry if I fight being taxed to death in regards to this. Not all of us have a tiny military like your country does.

Worse, federal taxes are just one piece of the pie for Americans. We're usually taxed heavily on the local level with property taxes, state taxes, etc. With those taxes we can certainly see providing value. What the federal government takes goes into a budgetary black box that pays for some pretty odious things. Currently my taxes pay for NASA to stop studying climate change and for the White House family to constantly vacation and live in places other than DC. Things like medicare and social security are taxed separately anyway. So I can see those as individual items and largely don't have an issue with them.

I think a lot of anti-tax attitudes here in the US aren't ignorance, but a protest against a corrupt system wasting money and using it for a net negative for us and the world (Iraq conflict, endless drone strikes, sabre-rattling with China, etc).

There's a moral position for the left to criticize taxation. Imagine if your country spent the kinds of money we did on defense. Would you be so happy with it?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#367
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize your way of life can never become mainstream, right ?

It can act as an additional revenue source thus allowing you to cut on the hours you work per week. If you can train yourself, or find a proper mentor. Though I think a proper mentor is the real bottle neck, so too many try to train themselves and lack the proper knowledge for where to start; too many go to CNBC to start.. If it became mainstream it would just mean more volatility which for me.. volatility is a good…

Care to 'mentor' me ?Email on my profile.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read about the Pressed Steel Car strike of 1909[0] and other various labor conditions of the early 20th century (child labor, 72-hour workweeks, company stores), I think that a 40+ hour work week in front of a desk is pretty civil in comparison. I mean, the Pressed Steel Car factory was supposedly bad even by the standards of the day, but one person dying on average a day? And remember, a lot of people came to…

>was favorable compared to farm work This, I believe, is a misconception. There's only so much farm work and population increases means work had to be found elsewhere. On top of automation lowering the number of farm hands one needed, and worse, a lot of that work being temporary seasonal work that paid very little. The Grapes of Wrath and The Jungle show the brutality of this period from both urban and rural perspec…

You're probably right; I'm sure there were many different reasons for urban migration. And yes, undoubtedly safer.

I don't have a source handy, but I remember reading that for farmers who didn't own their land, it was really difficult when bad weather ruined the crop and you couldn't make rent as a result, not to mention the fact that you didn't have food that season either. That's what I was referring to.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

As a former Googler who was involved in comparing pay across Google sites, Zurich was on par with Mountain View in gross pay (and ahead of New York), and after-tax pay was markedly higher in Zurich. While Berlin is a great city, it is very far from being a top-pay city in Europe.

After tax pay better be higher in Zurich... it's one of the most expensive cities to live in, especially as an ex-pat, in the world (and considerably more pricey than SF.)

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#370
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im pretty sure that even after adjustment, savings rates for software engineers in SF is much higher than in Berlin. There are many perks to Berlin over SF, but salaries and net income are not it.

So why are you even comparing the two and not e.g. working for Google in San Francisco and Zurich?

Was not the point of the thread that money is not the only factor in life?
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