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Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

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Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#41
post #22
post #15

History is written by the... victors. It's not surprising to get a single-sided story when the other side didn't care much about leaving written detailed records.

The Huns were victors though, so the age old adage may need some updating

Yep. History is written by... the people that cared to write it down. And Romans wrote a lot.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank our spineless Western leaders for committing war crimes in Yemen... From american white phosphorus weapons [0] to british cluster bombs [1]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/09/19... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/saudis-dropped...

Having done that does not mean our borders had to open for bitter, fighting age men.

It's a bit of a problem, but 'you break it, you own it' is a good rule.

See also: Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and a very large number of other places where proxy wars between western states and meddling in local affairs in order to gain the upper hand in veiled conflicts over resources have made the world a much worse place for a very large number of people.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#44
post #21

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What would you consider 'respect your culture'? I've lived in Canada, I did not notice any culture that I should respect other than to learn the language and obey the laws. In other countries that I've lived in (Poland, Romania) it was much the same. And that's being an atheist in countries that were fairly religious. Do you want refugees to start acting like the locals in every respect? Do you want them to start wea…

Actually, I think there is a strong culture in Canada and the United States that in each case is a testament to their political and economic success.

In the case of the U.S. that culture would be the WASPy social ethic of the original elites, which was carried forward until recently. That's more Puritan in New England, less so in Virginia, and non-existent in the Deep South. I'd call it the protestant work ethic, but I think there's something much more distinct in the U.S. Whatever Canada has going on is also distinct, though definitely seems close to the U.S. Mid-Western Lutheran culture.

The irony is that these days I'd argue it's immigrants that come closest to exemplifying the traditional, dominate U.S. ethic. Previous immigrant groups, like the Irish and Italians, didn't bring that culture but merely adopted it--in some cases poorly. (Maybe because they were less educated than the current influx, or because the British Empire left such a tremendous technocratic legacy throughout Asia, especially compared to Southern and Eastern Europe.) The past 50+ years a poor, white, Southern ethic seems to have come to dominate popular U.S. culture. That culture emphasizes the pursuit of wealth and the trappings of wealth rather than valuing work for it's own sake, despite the rhetoric. It also emphasizes blue collar "authenticity" over respecting the dictates of the elite, which on balance is a net negative. This is why that culture looks down on education, and why it's lost on so many people that so-called "book learning" is actually a kind of labor--a labor that alot of people dislike just as much as mopping floors, but something you endure nonetheless because it's what the WASPy work ethic demands, especially in the current economic environment. A college education is for many people the same kind of sublimation of personal aspirations that going straight to the factory was for people a few generations ago.

It's a shame we don't accept more Syrian refugees. By and large they're the middle class of Syria--educated, family-oriented, and instinctively averse to radicalism and fundamentalism. They've spent decades learning to avoid dependencies on political solutions and to grow business organically rather than through rent seeking. Syria's loss could be our gain. Such a wasted opportunity. It's especially egregious given how grim and horrendous the situation is there.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done that does not mean our borders had to open for bitter, fighting age men.

It's a bit of a problem, but 'you break it, you own it' is a good rule. See also: Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and a very large number of other places where proxy wars between western states and meddling in local affairs in order to gain the upper hand in veiled conflicts over resources have made the world a much worse place for a very large number of people.

Our elites broke it, I don't understand why plain civilians like you have to own it. Why do you feel responsible for those wars? Why do you feel like you have to pay the toll for it? Honest questions.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#46
post #43

Fun fact, "Barbarian" is a Greek word as a label for non-Greeks. To the Greeks, foreign languages just sounded like they were mumbling "bar-bar-bar", hence Barbarians = Non-Greeks.

I've heard this oft repeated over the decades. I wonder if there is a legitimate historical source for it.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a problem, but 'you break it, you own it' is a good rule. See also: Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and a very large number of other places where proxy wars between western states and meddling in local affairs in order to gain the upper hand in veiled conflicts over resources have made the world a much worse place for a very large number of people.

Our elites broke it, I don't understand why plain civilians like you have to own it. Why do you feel responsible for those wars? Why do you feel like you have to pay the toll for it? Honest questions.

Don't you get to vote where you live?

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#49
post #15

History is written by the... victors. It's not surprising to get a single-sided story when the other side didn't care much about leaving written detailed records.

History is written by other side as well. Unfortunately layman does not bother to read/listen alternatives.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#50
post #22
post #15

History is written by the... victors. It's not surprising to get a single-sided story when the other side didn't care much about leaving written detailed records.

The Huns were victors though, so the age old adage may need some updating

Not really. In my mind, they won the battle but lost the war.

It all depends on your point of view. If you look over the last millennia, the Huns didn't leave a lot of legacy beyond finishing off the corpse of Western Roman Empire, which wasn't really an empire then anyway. Their culture was absorbed and we only know of them because of that.

End of the day, they were ultimately just another band of warlords.

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