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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

We have Google offices in Europe too you know.

Also in Argentina.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really). I think it boils down to whether you want to take care of yourself, or if you let the state do it for you. I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, afforda…

> your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks

Adding restrictions on employer's ability to fire makes employers far less likely to hire. It enriches the already employed at the expense of the unemployed. If anything it makes more sense to have at-will employment in countries with strong social safety nets because unemployment is less disruptive there.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#323

As a European (used to free healthcare, statutory maternity leave, and 25 days paid leave per year) it shocked me on first visiting America how third-world it actually feels regarding what people consider a "normal" work/life balance. People work incredibly hard, long hours and often with very little to show for it. It's surreal.

There's a Cadillac ad for US, where the narrator openly says that those Europeans enjoy their holidays, but an American works hard and gets to enjoy nice car cue cadillac car enters the scene . They openly ridicule the idea that Europeans can take a month of holiday per year. I do feel a bit sorry for that attitude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8

As a Brit, the thing that bothered me most about that advert wasn't the `taking August off` line.

It was the fact they showed the awful plasticy dashboard. It looked so cheap and nasty.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#324
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many of them think that people in Europe have it worse. That the economy would just collapse into African-levels of poverty if there was mandatory paid holidays. This is a danger of American TV shows and movie studios remaking shows for the American audiences. They don't get to see that Europe is mostly a developed place.

It surprises me that Americans don't even get Christmas (or the “holidays”) off. Would the religious right not support that?

From my personal experience, and observations of friends and family, paid time off for the holidays in the US is typically a couple days for Thanksgiving, a couple days for Christmas, and New Years Day. So it's not a complete lack of time off.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#325
post #179
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inequality is the result of reaping the rewards of your own work: someone is more effective, so they earn more. Why is it bad? How can any market economy even function without it? Let us make an experiment and drop Paul Graham in a rainforest to see how much value he manages to extract. Then, once he has starved to death or died from some random infection, let's think again what makes IT jobs more valuable than gar…

We can't have a debate from the position of exceptions. The point he and Mr Graham are trying to make is simple. People are not same, and by that definition are not equal. The fact is that this inequality manifests itself in far more different ways before it appears as income/wealth inequality. Far before some one is rich and poor, they are good and bad at playing the piano, writing a book, programming or anything fo…

> The point he and Mr Graham are trying to make is simple. People are not same, and by that definition are not equal.

What I'm questioning is not whether people's merits are unequal, but the tool used to measure them. My point is that a measure is inherently relative.

The thought experiment I offer is another way of measuring someone's utility. It is inherenthy flawed and unfit to the needs of our society. But again, the person I responded to didn't establish that his measuring tool is an optimization function for our society either.

Also this is not related to whether two people are compared on their job, but to whether two people good at different jobs are compared.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surprises me that Americans don't even get Christmas (or the “holidays”) off. Would the religious right not support that?

From my personal experience, and observations of friends and family, paid time off for the holidays in the US is typically a couple days for Thanksgiving, a couple days for Christmas, and New Years Day. So it's not a complete lack of time off.

Second this. My experience is that your typical businesses will either follow the federal holiday schedule[0] or modify it by adding the day after Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve while removing 2-4 of the following: MLK Day, Presidents' Day, Columbus Day, Veterans' Day.

So, you'll typically get 8-10 PTO days, independent from vacation policy. That'll be different in the service industry - it's lucrative for some restaurants, gas stations, hotels, etc. to be open - but a lot of times hourly workers will get time-and-a-half for their troubles.

[0]: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/snow-dismissal-pro...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#327
post #86
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to disagree with the parent comment (because overall I prefer the European way) but we do have it worse in some ways. Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. I get the feeling that when you're winning at life in America, you're really winning. But when you're losing you're really losing. In Europe the ups and downs of life are more smoothed out.

What you describe about really winning/loosing is inequality. I generally think that inequality is bad for populations (you may disagree, but usually, those in favor of inequality are those on the right side of it)

Inequality is something I see as necessary for two reasons, but something which should only be allowed to a given extent.

First, inequality is needed so that there is a reward for working harder, doing more. The one who coasts through their education doing only the minimal needed before getting a job doing the same should be rewarded less than the one who gives it their best. BUT, inequality should never be so great that the kid who coasts can come from such a privileged position that they are forever in a better position than someone who works hard. For a lot of American's, working hard doesn't really get rewards, so you could say we have exceeded the optimal amount of inequality and thus need more equality. But if we envision a fully equal system where everyone is equally rewarded, there is far less incentive to do more than the bare minimum. Even supporters of basic income think that those who go above and beyond should be rewarded with extra income above the level of basic income. I've never heard of anyone supporting a basic income plan where all income beyond the basic income level is taxed at a 100% rate. Even a 50% or 75% tax rate indicates those who do more should have more, with the difference being how much more.

For this, we need to make sure the inequality is high enough that effort is rewarded, but keep it low enough that birth does not convey special privileges.

Second, equality will never exist in all areas of life. Even if we had total financial equality, some people are more sociable, better looking, etc. As such, what people have access to in our society is still unequal. In a financially equal society, the one with vastly superior social skills, or who is attractive (look up the Halo Effect), has access to more resources and thus inequality still exists. Allowing some level of financial inequality allows people a way to do better when they lack the above skills.

Consider some modern day developer who is slightly autistic but highly functioning enough to hold a good job. Their ability to earn more can, to some extent, help offset the lowered levels of social skills in the extent it allows them to achieve their life goals.

The only way to have full equality beyond just financial equality would be to implement a tax on anything that can be considered a good or service in the most abstract of methods, and I think we would find that even the most ardent communist are all out libertarians in regards to these social goods and services.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#328
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I look at the UK from Scandinavia, it seems to me that it's basically "50/50 continental Europe and the US". Wage inequality, parental leaves, employment security, higher education etc.are decidedly "non-european" in the UK. So yes when I talk about "Europe" in the context of "Europe vs US" I think the UK needs to be considered separately.

Yes, I'm Norwegian and moved to the UK, and it was a shock to see "US conditions" in Europe, and took a lot to get used to, even though the UK still have a lot of protections and welfare systems the US doesn't. (to the Americans: In many European countries "US conditions" is commonly used in political discourse as a way of scaring voters with the image of chaos and suffering)

Shades of grey though; not entirely black and white. In the UK->Norway direction, it's surprising to have to pay to visit a doctor or specialist, not to mention paying painful retail price for medicines, even for children. (Yes, I know there's an annual cap etc., but still seems a bit weird compared to free-at-the-point-of-use and a flat prescription charge in the UK.) No NHS dentistry either. (Yes, I know NHS dentist availability is not what it once was in the UK! And there are subsidies for necessary children's treatment in Norway depending on severity.)

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#329
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK still allows private healthcare so those who really want to pay extra can do so. In several areas, for instance emergency medicine, there isn't a private offering and others the NHS has the centres of excellence available to all based on need. While our emergency system is often at the point of creaking it at least isn't anywhere close to American levels of having to deal with what should be primary care probl…

"While our emergency system is often at the point of creaking it at least isn't anywhere close to American levels of having to deal with what should be primary care problems." How much of this "creaking" is intentional underfunding or political meddling by politicians looking for a payday from American medical insurance companies when they ruin another nations healthcare is debatable. It's very similar to recent Trum…

I can't speak for Trump's motivations, but I've noticed something similar in the corporate world. If a capable executive is particularly critical of an aspect of the business, he may (inadvertently) find himself put in charge of it. It's a method for breaking status quo. And just because this new leader starts as an outsider doesn't mean he stays an outsider after becoming intimate with all the invisible challenges facing that business unit.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#330
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Far before some one is rich and poor, they are good and bad at playing the piano, writing a book, programming or anything for that matter. You attribute far too much of a person's wealth accumulation with skill. Is Bill Gates the best programmer of all time? > People are not same, and by that definition are not equal. It's hard to argue with this, but I don't see it coming up much in the gender or race discussions.…

>>You attribute far too much of a person's wealth accumulation with skill. Is Bill Gates the best programmer of all time? Bill Gates is good at a lot of other things including programming. And I'm not talking about skill. Its also work, persistence and variety of other things that add up. >>It's hard to argue with this, but I don't see it coming up much in the gender or race discussions. I wonder why. People are only…

> Bill Gates is good at a lot of other things including programming. And I'm not talking about skill. Its also work, persistence and variety of other things that add up.

According to the metrics our society uses to reward him, he's quite litterally the 85.000.000.000x dev.

And here's us thinking 10x devs don't exist...

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