Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 445 posts

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#241

Post by tbrownaw »

probably_wrong wrote: post #215
conanbatt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really). I think it boils down to whether you want to take care of yourself, or if you let the state do it for you. I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, afforda…

If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really).

Getting new hires up to speed is expensive enough that they'd be pretty stupid to actually do this. Sure a few do, but it isn't common.

Also, a couple minutes with google turns up this: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=AVD_DUR . If it says what I think it says, getting a new job really is easier in the US (like it should be, because as any economist will tell you this is what has to happen when a bad hire is less of a disaster for the employer).

I think it boils down to whether you want to take care of yourself, or if you let the state do it for you.

In part, yes.

But also, there are two approaches to reducing downtime. You can increase MTBF (make things more reliable, make it harder to get fired); or you can reduce MTTR (make things easier to fix, make it easier to get hired somewhere new). Europe goes with the first approach, the US goes with the second (which I very much prefer, because it doesn't gum things up).

Separately, there's also making downtime less of a problem (failover systems, all the various other social safety net things). The US is generally known to kinda suck at this.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#242

Post by nommm-nommm »

dilemma wrote: post #229
sheeshkebab wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US way: You make $8k a month: You pay $2k in taxes (Employer pays an additional $1k in tax), so your income is 9k. You pay $500 in health and other benefits (employer pays another $500) If you spend remaining $5.5k, you'll usually pay $250-$500 In sales taxes. In other words, you have $5k remaining to spend on shit that you probably don't need.

>you have $5k remaining each month for when you decide to quit your job and start your own company, giving you autonomy that is the #1 factor for happiness and an all around healthy life.

Ehhhh... Personal preference, I don't want autonomy at work. I'm much happier being a cog in the machine, going to work at 9, leaving at 5.

I'm a software engineer and work is a means to an end for me, to feed my family, give me financial security, and enable me to do the things I want to do when I'm not at work. For the most part I enjoy what I do but I would strongly prefer to spend less time at work and have more "me" time. I certainly don't want the responsibility and stress of my own business.

The epitome of happiness is certainly not starting your own business for most of Americans.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#243

Post by cabernal »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

I would say there's no comparison between what a developer makes in the US with the rest of the world.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#244

Post by HarryHirsch »

dagw wrote: post #204
jdietrich wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average new-build British home is 76 square metres; a typical single-wide mobile home ranges from 60 to 93 square metres. We're a crowded island, we have small houses.

We're a crowded island, we have small houses. The UK has a lower population density the than both Belgium and Holland, both of which have larger average houses than the UK. So there has to be more to it than simply being 'crowded'.

Haven't run the numbers, but the impression is that the South of England is much more densely populated. The majority of people lives south of the M62 and east of the M5/M6 highways. And then there's greenbelts to prevent the endless exurbanization.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#245

Post by [deleted] »

dagw wrote: post #204
jdietrich wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average new-build British home is 76 square metres; a typical single-wide mobile home ranges from 60 to 93 square metres. We're a crowded island, we have small houses.

We're a crowded island, we have small houses. The UK has a lower population density the than both Belgium and Holland, both of which have larger average houses than the UK. So there has to be more to it than simply being 'crowded'.

[deleted]

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#246

Post by lovich »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

You're comparing median salary in Berlin with the high end in the US, and you are ignoring much of the complexities that were already mentioned such as the incredibley high cost of living in San Francisco where google and facebook pay those salaries.

I'm in the Boston market and median salary for devs is around 80-90k when you include all skill levels, but every single dev I know has roommates or an hour+ commute into the city and higher healthcare costs than Germany.

I'd believe that you would make more overall money in the US once you got to the higher end of the market, but it's not as simple as a calculation as you are making it out to be

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#247

Post by vidarh »

alkonaut wrote: post #233
vidarh wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison doesn't make sense. He states $6k gross salary, which means you need to start with $6k, not $8k, before adding on the employer contribution/payroll tax.

Yeah - whether the "payroll tax" is seen as ever earned by me or not is just semantics. The employers expense is $8k in my case. I get that $8k minus payroll tax minus income tax to my bank account. The net is $4k. In this context if I'm asked how much I earn, the answer is $6k (i.e. before income tax but after payroll taxes). The fact that it's deducted first as $2k payroll then as $2k income tax doesn't change anyt…

It's just semantics, but it confuses matters because most people don't include the payroll tax amount when talking about tax rates. I agree it plays into the tax pressure, but it makes it necessary to be very precise when describing it or you end up with confusion like the one above...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#248

Post by rubber_duck »

alkonaut wrote: post #112
J-dawg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to disagree with the parent comment (because overall I prefer the European way) but we do have it worse in some ways. Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. I get the feeling that when you're winning at life in America, you're really winning. But when you're losing you're really losing. In Europe the ups and downs of life are more smoothed out.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

>is just like the difference between the fancy parts of Stockholm and rural eastern Europe

It's really not - in the EU the difference between median net income in say Norway 41 483€ or Denmark 28 364€ and Romania 2 315€ and Bulgaria 3 332€ - that is over 10x differences between poorest and richest countries. US doesn't have that level of disparity between states even if you count Puerto Rico.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gdp-and-beyond/quality-of-l...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#249

Post by 72deluxe »

gambiting wrote: post #133
jacquesm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many Europeans would trade their car for a Cadillac anyway, they're not very popular here because of fuel consumption and size.

I'm actually extremely surprised that you can buy a Cadillac in EU at the moment, since Chrystler and Dodge stopped selling all of their cars in EU few years ago citing lack of interest - but apparently you can order a brand new CTS-V or an Escalade in the UK? http://www.cadillac.co.uk/v-series/cts-v-series.html I've literally never seen a cadillac over here, except for a few US left-hand-drive imports. And yes, an E…

I used to think Range Rovers were large in the UK until I went to NYC where it suddenly looked like a toy compared with the giant 4x4s they drove. How on earth anyone could survive being hit by one is beyond me - the radiator grill was chest height.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#250

Post by cjCamel »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

We have Google offices in Europe too you know.
Post reply on HN