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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#221

Post by vidarh »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #182
alkonaut wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on which europeans you mean. The higher taxed countries like the nordics pay mad taxes. I don't mind though because I feel it's well spent (i.e. my attitude towards public spending is that it is usually pretty efficient ). That's probably a big difference to the US where the attitude seems to be that taxes are pretty much a black hole. Tax calc for me: Employer pays $8k Payroll taxes deducted: $2k My gross sa…

US way: You make $8k a month: You pay $2k in taxes (Employer pays an additional $1k in tax), so your income is 9k. You pay $500 in health and other benefits (employer pays another $500) If you spend remaining $5.5k, you'll usually pay $250-$500 In sales taxes. In other words, you have $5k remaining to spend on shit that you probably don't need.

That comparison doesn't make sense. He states $6k gross salary, which means you need to start with $6k, not $8k, before adding on the employer contribution/payroll tax.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#222

Post by dukeluke »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #209
dukeluke wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is what the two sides accomplish, not what they say they're going to do. In the US, when the Republicans are in charge, Democrats hem and haw about how they need to do all this stuff differently from the Repubs, but when they're in charge, it doesn't happen. See Obama and friends in '08. Then with the presidential candidate, they chose the one with the $250,000 speaking fees at all the major banks instea…

It doesn't sound like even you believe they are both the same, certainly you've provided no evidence that is the case in your response. You'd just prefer if the Democrats were even more towards your preference on fiscal matters. I can agree with that, whether it would fly with the American voters sufficiently to overcome the rural/republican tilt is another matter entirely.

In my opinion, the Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin, focusing on divisive social issues and not on actually helping the country. What I would truly like is voter reform allowing for more than a two-party system. I feel that the current system leads naturally to corruption and favoring corporate needs.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#223

Post by gjjrfcbugxbhf »

vidarh wrote: post #218
collyw wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't Europeans pay similar levels of tax to Americans?

Depends greatly by country. In the US, the total tax wedge (which includes employer tax contributions, such as payroll taxes) is 31.7% of total labour costs[1]. In the UK it is 30.8%, while e.g. in Denmark it is 36.4%. The OECD average is 35.9% Belgium is the extreme - at 55.3% it's the highest in the OECD. Three European countries (UK, Ireland, Switzerland) come in below the US on this metric. The numbers are basica…

Are you sure the numbers for the UK include national insurance contributions? Between employee contributions (which are basically an income tax with a weird regressive structure) and employer contributions (similar to US payroll tax) i would expect that figure to be higher.

Nb income based taxes are only the start anyway property tax aka Council tax is quite a burden on lower income households in the UK.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#224

Post by koolba »

jdietrich wrote: post #152
readittwice wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Americans bother to have a passport? Their country is so huge, probably more than you could visit in a lifetime. Deserts, mountains, cities, ... In Europe countries and the continent are smaller, Vienna for example literally has 3 other countries in commuting distance. It is quite obvious that you are more likely to need a passport here in Europe. A much fairer comparison would be to only count Europeans t…

Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the funda…

> Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner.

True but America is a wide enough place that you can have most of that without leaving the continental USA.

Growing up in Podunk, USA makes people from Big City, USA feel like foreigners (and vice versa). I'm not saying don't go outside the USA (quite the contrary!) but there's quite a bit you can do and see here without a passport.

> I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the fundamental cultural divides in the US. It's difficult to understand the value of travelling abroad if you've never experienced it and don't know many people who have.

Very true and I don't know anyone that's traveled extensively that doesn't comment on it being a positive experience in hindsight (aside from business travelers complaining about going back to the same places they don't particular like month after month).

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#225

Post by yummyfajitas »

coldtea wrote: post #197
yummyfajitas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the factors you cite mean the number I provided is an overestimate. If you have any evidence we work harder than before, cite it. Even so I'm sure they will be an increase in Joe Average's consumption, but is that because Joe Average has more buying power than a worker in the 60s, or because they have to spend more to stay afloat, as everything's more expensive, That's definitely not the case, since the numbers I…

> That's definitely not the case, since the numbers I cited are adjusted for inflation. Inflation adjustment doesn't take into account costs that are prevalent in an era but totally absent in another: like internet access, cellphone bills, and such. Nor how much one not puts into their retirement account / savings to spend on daily needs. If it was just supposed to be relative to the past, we would all be content for…

Inflation adjustment doesn't take into account costs that are prevalent in an era but totally absent in another: like internet access, cellphone bills, and such.

I'm glad you've agreed with me that life has done nothing but get better. We're all winners, whereas by modern standards our parents were all losers.

As for the other things you bring up, basically none of the facts fit your story.

Homeownership has ranged from 64% to 69% since the 60's, but houses are twice as big.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home-ownership_in_the_United_S...

http://www.realtor.org/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2007032701?Ope...

Apparently there's no difficulty owning a home.

College enrollments (as a % of new graduates) has done nothing but climb.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/images/2010/ted_20100428.png

Note how: "after adjusting for inflation, today’s average hourly wage

That's because we get more non-wage benefits and fewer dollars per hour. Real compensation per hour has done nothing but rise.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB

Why not google these facts before making nonsensical arguments?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#226

Post by eatplayrove »

mnx wrote: post #188
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though weirdly in modern American politics, there's some degree of inversion there, with the "coastal liberal elites" voting for "socialist" healthcare and the unemployed coal miner with black lung disease voting against it.

Democrats are on average poorer than Republicans, so, there may be some inversion, but the general principle still stands

Is that still true if you take African Americans out of the equation, I am genuinely curious?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#227

Post by ZeroGravitas »

CM30 wrote: post #210
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though weirdly in modern American politics, there's some degree of inversion there, with the "coastal liberal elites" voting for "socialist" healthcare and the unemployed coal miner with black lung disease voting against it.

I suspect the two party system is responsible there. Lots of political viewpoints are all lumbered into one party, meaning that people with fiscally liberal/conservative preferences are lumped in with those with socially liberal/conservative preferences even if they're not the same crowd. People aren't voting 'against their own interests' in the sense that they're stupid. They're voting for their own interests in a p…

Why do they want less immigration though? Is it because they believe that all the jobs were given away to other countries, even though US manufacturing and coal output are at or near historic highs?

Similarly do they want Obamacare repealed because it's a "disaster" and they've been promised better cheaper insurance by someone who doesn't actually have any kind of plan to deliver on that promise?

Is there only a debate about gay marriage at all because it's been turned into "an attack on traditional marriage"?

Are the liberals intentionally ruining the economy because they've joined the global warming religion that is basically an excuse for communism?

Some of this is ignorance and being conned, but some of it is stupidity as well. It's probably not wise to ignore that reality.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#228

Post by Tomis02 »

supremesaboteur wrote: post #44
trome wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

58% of Americans would prefer a federally funded healthcare system[0], akin to healthcare in Canada. We only feel alone because both parties are bought and owned by multi-nationals, and don't give a shit about what most people want. First Past the Post ensures a 3rd party will cause carnage if it ever did rise, splitting the vote and not electing the candidate most voters would prefer. Look at Wolf PAC in Connecticut…

Doesn't federally funded healthcare system have problems like lower quality of healthcare, increased government spending, increased chances of corruption and creating a moral hazard of not working to earn what is consumed ?

Doesn't have to.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#229

Post by dilemma »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #182
alkonaut wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on which europeans you mean. The higher taxed countries like the nordics pay mad taxes. I don't mind though because I feel it's well spent (i.e. my attitude towards public spending is that it is usually pretty efficient ). That's probably a big difference to the US where the attitude seems to be that taxes are pretty much a black hole. Tax calc for me: Employer pays $8k Payroll taxes deducted: $2k My gross sa…

US way: You make $8k a month: You pay $2k in taxes (Employer pays an additional $1k in tax), so your income is 9k. You pay $500 in health and other benefits (employer pays another $500) If you spend remaining $5.5k, you'll usually pay $250-$500 In sales taxes. In other words, you have $5k remaining to spend on shit that you probably don't need.

>you have $5k remaining each month for when you decide to quit your job and start your own company, giving you autonomy that is the #1 factor for happiness and an all around healthy life.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#230

Post by dalbasal »

campbellmorgan wrote: post #214
dalbasal wrote: post #196

This article, and most discussions on this topic are all rich with sub-text. It offers to connect drivers with an insurance broker, and helpfully notes that “the Affordable Care Act offers many choices to make sure you’re covered.” ..a lot of sub-text here, for example. One piece of the sub-text coming up in my internet & human bubble is "technological unemployment" which I have a slightly different take on then a lo…

I agree thoroughly with your sentiment and am a strong believer in the welfare state as a way of addressing social imbalances. I also like the economics of the state providing better stability to those in the gig economy because, in theory, it will mean that they feel less pressure to work unhealthy hours (as in the article) and this, in turn, should increase the minimum amount they will work for. However, my objecti…

Think of it as supporting citizens instead of workers.

UK corporate & capital gains taxes make up less than 10% of overall taxes. This is normal. I'm a pragmatist. Happy to support any realistic plan to shift tax burdens upmarket, if possible but my starting position is that we have X resources to work with. X= about 40% of gbp in most countries. I don't think economies can support much more. I'm not counting on any of the politicians promising to tax multinationals. If they succeed in bringing in VAT-like sums without taking it from the pocket of workers I will change my mind. For now, work with what we got.

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