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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#211

Post by dagw »

Accacin wrote: post #200
alkonaut wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I look at the UK from Scandinavia, it seems to me that it's basically "50/50 continental Europe and the US". Wage inequality, parental leaves, employment security, higher education etc.are decidedly "non-european" in the UK. So yes when I talk about "Europe" in the context of "Europe vs US" I think the UK needs to be considered separately.

Wage inequality and higher education I agree with, but we do quite well with parental leave don't we (the UK)?

but we do quite well with parental leave don't we

Relative to the US, absolutely. Relative to Scandinavia, not really.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#212

Post by elthran »

zelos wrote: post #154
TulliusCicero wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average home size in the UK is less than half that of the US: http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-house US @ 77 sq meters per capita vs UK @ 33 sq meters per capita.

Yet in the equally crowded Netherlands, the average house size is much larger. Is it just the house building industry is really poor here in the UK?

Pretty much, yes.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#213

Post by Oletros »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

> Not to mention that people criticizing work-life balance of engineers in the us havent visited google offices.

Office are part of work, not part of life

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#214

Post by campbellmorgan »

dalbasal wrote: post #196

This article, and most discussions on this topic are all rich with sub-text. It offers to connect drivers with an insurance broker, and helpfully notes that “the Affordable Care Act offers many choices to make sure you’re covered.” ..a lot of sub-text here, for example. One piece of the sub-text coming up in my internet & human bubble is "technological unemployment" which I have a slightly different take on then a lo…

I agree thoroughly with your sentiment and am a strong believer in the welfare state as a way of addressing social imbalances. I also like the economics of the state providing better stability to those in the gig economy because, in theory, it will mean that they feel less pressure to work unhealthy hours (as in the article) and this, in turn, should increase the minimum amount they will work for. However, my objection to this as solution is the situation of non-domiciled, largely un-taxed multinationals not contributing fairly to the pot that keeps the welfare working. As far as I can see, that amounts to a wealth transfer from the state to the shareholders and high-level managers of these companies.

Of course the solution would be to tax these companies fairly (which at least in the UK, is slowly beginning to happen), but eventually when taxed fairly enough, doesn't the burden for the companies end up being the same? The only difference is that the state would be footing the bill for the admin overhead of supporting these workers.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#215

Post by probably_wrong »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really). I think it boils down to whether you want to take care of yourself, or if you let the state do it for you. I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, affordable healthcare, a month of holidays, and having free time in the evenings for hobbies.

Your priorities, of course, may be different.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#216

Post by ice109 »

imgabe wrote: post #206
d--b wrote: post #153

This is a strangely divisive topic in the startup industry. For some reason, there are smart people who think that meritocracy works: work hard and things will be good for you. The problem is that in many cases working hard (as in building up a startup) does indeed give people the opportunity to rise in society. But it is not true in all cases at all. And so the negative statement "if you are struggling you didn't tr…

> First, in capitalism, a work's remuneration is supposed to be related in a way to the perceived utility of that work for society in general. This is a misconception, I think. A work's remuneration is related to the utility perceived by the person providing the remuneration . Society in general doesn't pay people. Specific people pay other people. Find something enough people want and give it to them. It's not any m…

you're wrong. if some good is over valued for long enough market dynamics kick in and the price will go down.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#217

Post by dukeluke »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #181
hellofunk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans: 1) In the U.S. you can work for years at a company before getting more than 1 or 2 weeks paid vacation. 2) Most Americans don't travel much outside their own state or region, let alone country. Most don't even own passports. 3) Even when not on the job, either at night, on the weekends, or on vacation, A…

> In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans No we don't. I have 5 weeks of holiday a year, total. I take 2 weeks around christmas. Maybe a week somewhere in Spring, that leaves 2 weeks summer holidays. Plus, you want to keep a few spare days in case you need an incidental day off for whatever reason.

I'm sad to say that your experience with PTO is not the norm in the US. The lower and most of the middle classes have it much worse: http://theweek.com/articles/463897/americas-war-vacation-by-...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#218

Post by vidarh »

collyw wrote: post #124
cyphunk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardest thing for me to explain to my American family, as someone living in the EU, is that a tax or burden that is evenly distributed has near 0 negative impact on collective productivity. A society where everyone is missing one leg will still function and be largely productive, up until they have to compete with a society where everyone has two legs. That leg is something like health care, maternaty leave, vaca…

Don't Europeans pay similar levels of tax to Americans?

Depends greatly by country. In the US, the total tax wedge (which includes employer tax contributions, such as payroll taxes) is 31.7% of total labour costs[1]. In the UK it is 30.8%, while e.g. in Denmark it is 36.4%. The OECD average is 35.9%

Belgium is the extreme - at 55.3% it's the highest in the OECD. Three European countries (UK, Ireland, Switzerland) come in below the US on this metric.

The numbers are basically all over the place, and depends more on overall culture and priorities than things like healthcare etc. by themselves.

In terms of what is directly visible to the employee, US is at 25.6% of gross wages (note the difference - these numbers can not be directly compared to the ones above, as the ones above are percentages of total labour cost including the employer contributions) compared to 23.4% for the UK, 36.1% for Denmark (Denmark is one of very few countries that don't "hide" hardly any of labour costs as part of employer social security contributions), or 28.4% for Norway, 24.7% for Sweden or 42% for Belgium. So still all over the place.

It also depends greatly on how much you earn, and how progressive your specific country's tax system is.

The only thing that's clear is that the US does not stand out as being nearly as much of a low tax country as people sometimes like to think. E.g. the OECD average (which to be fair is pulled down by several non-European countries) of employee contributions is 25.5%, so slightly below the US.

[1] http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/taxatio...

[2] http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/taxatio...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#220

Post by nommm-nommm »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

Oh please, no. Please don't "improve" work life balance by making work more "fun" a la Google. I don't want to have "fun" at work, I want to have plenty of time off work to be with my family.
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