The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess • Hacker News Board

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#131

Post by TulliusCicero » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:18 AM UTC

cbanek wrote: post #9

NTDF9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Seems like in America it's hard to win. Either get paid not nearly enough and struggle to make ends meet, or get a high paid high stress job, still work all day and all night. A consequence of worshipping money. Even a human is valued by the amount of money they make or what they can afford. Other societies have agreed that there are some fundamental things that they will all share the burden for collectively and…

I'd agree with all of that. The differences between Europe and the US in terms of maternity leave / time off / healthcare are fairly stark. And now we're presently dismantling healthcare as a right in the US. Really hitting at least one disaster in your life seems almost inevitable, and the system is waiting there to profit from you. I'm definitely of the more socialist bent, in that I know that if people around me a…

> And now we're presently dismantling healthcare as a right in the US.

It was never a right in the US, although it's true that Obamacare brought us closer to that ideal.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#132

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:19 AM UTC

trome wrote: post #70

oblio wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You badly need a multi party system. Your current system is too polarized. There's no way to represent nuances. What if I like guns but I want universal healthcare? What if I want a smaller government but I also want great environmental policies? The US system was ok in the 18th century but now it's a relic. Some things don't age well.

> You badly need a multi party system. Your current system is too polarized. Definitely we need to get rid of First Past the Post, but while our parties are polarized, they are both far to the right of the vast majority of voters. > What if I like guns but I want universal healthcare? That is actually fairly common. Gun control can be done in a nuanced way, and we can have more guns with few instances of gun violence…

> we can have more guns with few instances of gun violence esque Switzerland if we train our populace to properly secure and disarm their guns when not being actively used.

Would a law requiring guns to be safely stored (i.e. in a safe) be acceptable? I assume the gun lobby would scream at the thought, but what would the majority think?

Likewise, would a national register and limits (i.e. every serial number is bound to a person in a national registry, the number of registered weapons to an individual is limited, and carrying a weapon not in the registry is a felony) - would that be acceptable?

I think all these countries with tons of guns e.g. Switzerland, Nordics, Canada, the key is they are to a large part hunting weapons. Hunters are usually completely fine with keeping their guns, or in some cases just vital parts of each gun, in a safe. This however means you can't keep a handgun in your bedside drawer, for example. But that's no problem - no one is using guns for "protection" anyway. I think the difference to the US is that in the US people still believe in using weapons for personal protection. Not being able to carry guns outside or have them lying around the house then sort of removes the ability to use them for protection.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#133

Post by gambiting » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:20 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #125

gambiting wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a Cadillac ad for US, where the narrator openly says that those Europeans enjoy their holidays, but an American works hard and gets to enjoy nice car cue cadillac car enters the scene . They openly ridicule the idea that Europeans can take a month of holiday per year. I do feel a bit sorry for that attitude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8

I wonder how many Europeans would trade their car for a Cadillac anyway, they're not very popular here because of fuel consumption and size.

I'm actually extremely surprised that you can buy a Cadillac in EU at the moment, since Chrystler and Dodge stopped selling all of their cars in EU few years ago citing lack of interest - but apparently you can order a brand new CTS-V or an Escalade in the UK? http://www.cadillac.co.uk/v-series/cts-v-series.html

I've literally never seen a cadillac over here, except for a few US left-hand-drive imports.

And yes, an Escalade looks almost comical on UK roads, it's just too big by every measure.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#134

Post by oblio » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:20 AM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #61

oblio wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You badly need a multi party system. Your current system is too polarized. There's no way to represent nuances. What if I like guns but I want universal healthcare? What if I want a smaller government but I also want great environmental policies? The US system was ok in the 18th century but now it's a relic. Some things don't age well.

Do you retain first past the post, switch to AV, move to proportional representation? What are the consequences of each of these choices and who is the right person to make them? There is no perfect voting/political system - all of them have side effects.

The fact that there's no perfect __anything__ shouldn't stop us from trying to improve the status quo.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#135

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:21 AM UTC

delegate wrote: post #121

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #21

"...It does require a fairly dystopian strain of doublethink for a company to celebrate how hard and how constantly its employees must work to make a living, given that these companies are themselves setting the terms..." "setting the terms" is a bit over-the-top here. If I want to go from here to the airport, and you have a car, and I offer you twenty bucks, is that okay? Does it somehow become bad if we meet online…

If I charge money for my car repeatedly, it means I'm renting it so I'm running a business. If I do it through an app, now I'm playing by their rules, not mine. These companies are setting the terms, because they make the software, run the platform and process the payments. The article is correct, no need to bend reality any further, it's quite simple. Maybe your wife was enjoying work during her pregnancy and it was…

I don't know if this has occurred to you, but being angry because you think that others are "..Seeing the world through the ruthless capitalist work-till-you-die, climb to the top lens is detrimental to the future of the world. ..." is doing exactly what you hate: viewing everything in life as a monetary transaction, then judging the universe as a result of how much money is made.

I said there's a case to be made that companies are setting up monopolies and hurting both parties in the exchange. If you'd like to make that case, do it. I'm all ears.

But please (and I speak to the author of this piece more than you) -- don't fuck with me, jumping up on a soapbox and telling me how the world should be. Hell, I never thought they should cancel Gilligan's Island. How the hell should I know whether or not some random person is being exploited unless they tell me? And even then, this is an argument to be made using statistics alongside personal stories used as examples. Anybody that can put a sentence together can preach. All that takes is a lot of emotion and some rubes that like getting emotional. I'll be more blunt: the author needs to get a better game or go home.

I'm open to the discussion if it can be made in a reasonable, adult manner. Grandstanding, chest-thumping, and emoting? It's great if you like drama. Just ain't hitting on much when it comes to reasoned discourse. There are a lot of folks in the world who'd rather appear as a talking head on a cable TV show yelling at another talking head than simply open their heart and try to find consensus.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#136

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:21 AM UTC

J-dawg wrote: post #126

alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

> whereas in Europe it's normally free While we're correcting misconceptions, in the UK it's most definitely not free. But I believe it's still a lot cheaper than the US. The universities are capped on the fees they can charge, and your student loan is regulated by the government (you only start paying back when you're earning over a threshold).

When I look at the UK from Scandinavia, it seems to me that it's basically "50/50 continental Europe and the US".

Wage inequality, parental leaves, employment security, higher education etc.are decidedly "non-european" in the UK.

So yes when I talk about "Europe" in the context of "Europe vs US" I think the UK needs to be considered separately.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#137

Post by pcrh » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:22 AM UTC

Pyxl101 wrote: post #118

wiz21c wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe about really winning/loosing is inequality. I generally think that inequality is bad for populations (you may disagree, but usually, those in favor of inequality are those on the right side of it)

I recommend reading: http://paulgraham.com/ineq.html Inequality is the result of people earning different amounts, such being compensated in proportion to the value they generate - rather than everyone earning the same irrespective of that. Inequality is the result of reaping the rewards of your own work: someone is more effective, so they earn more. Why is it bad? How can any market economy even function without it?…

Most people commenting on economic inequality are referring to inequity, i.e. that there are people who receive benefits disproportionate to the value to the work they contribute or the output they create.

Few people object to higher rewards for those more talented or harder working.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#138

Post by collyw » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

rejschaap wrote: post #53

yummyfajitas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of jobs. People just refuse to do them. https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/robots_didnt_take_ou... Aren't Trump's anti-immigrant attitude considered bad in part because we might lose immigrant labor we are dependent on?

There is a difference between a job and "there is much work to be done".

Yes, its pay.

Just look around any developing country. There always seem to be people almost begging for work, yet there seems so much more work that needs done - infrastructure needing repaired, litter being cleared, healthcare...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#139

Post by cmdrfred » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #103

cmdrfred wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in America and my wife's family is from the UK. We aren't rich by any means but we bought a small house last year and when her family flew in they kept commenting on how big our house was. Our house is about as small as you can get without living in a trailer. I'm a high school drop out and we each make less than the median nation income and I feel we are better off than if we lived in the UK. Though I admit l…

Now let's hope nobody gets ill.

We both have health insurance, we make too much for Obamacare but we costed it out and we can afford for one of us to stop working if we had to.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#140

Post by readittwice » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #104

dnel wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited the US for the first time while on honeymoon and a couple of friends we visited while over there asked how I was handling doing work while away, it was an eye-opening insight into American culture I'd never witnessed before but it was a good opportunity to explain work-life balance from a European pov though, I didn't hear any counter-arguments from that small sample, maybe someday it'll catch on.

In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans: 1) In the U.S. you can work for years at a company before getting more than 1 or 2 weeks paid vacation. 2) Most Americans don't travel much outside their own state or region, let alone country. Most don't even own passports. 3) Even when not on the job, either at night, on the weekends, or on vacation, A…

Why should Americans bother to have a passport? Their country is so huge, probably more than you could visit in a lifetime. Deserts, mountains, cities, ... In Europe countries and the continent are smaller, Vienna for example literally has 3 other countries in commuting distance. It is quite obvious that you are more likely to need a passport here in Europe. A much fairer comparison would be to only count Europeans that use their passport to travel to other continents.