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Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

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211–220 of 394 posts

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#211
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out. Anyone else on here who abstains from caffeine?

I think you're making a great point - coffee is the legal drug at the moment. Personally, I drink coffee for the flavor, not for the caffeine. I'm a big fan of high-quality decaf coffee and it's something we're looking to do with Sudden.

I'd dig good instant decaf. I don't want any caffeine but coffee can be delicious. Give me a shot at coffee snobbery!

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#212
> It’s normally made with the worst beans that are roasted really dark and extracted up to 6 times at temperatures up to 180C [...] This process results in the gnarly bitter, woody, rubbery instant we all know.

And then there is Nescafe Gold.

Thanks for playing.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#213
Since HN is probably a caffeine-heavy crowd, I'll launch into this here... I understand the pitch, and I'm happy someone is pursuing better instant coffee. The status quo is really, truly miserable. If you have the need to carry coffee on your person at all times so you can have a decent cup wherever you are, Sudden sounds like a good option. However, I suspect most people drink their coffee at home or work, and while everyone will have their different "optimal" coffee scenario, I'll offer my experience to great coffee without spending unnecessarily on pods or instant:

If you want better coffee, you'll get most out of your investment by buying fresh, whole beans and a grinder. The $15 blender-like grinders? Just fine for most. As long as your beans are fresh you'll have a vastly better cup of coffee. Grind up whole beans in like 30 seconds and stick it in your regular drip coffee machine and enjoy 10 minutes later. You've now improved your coffee game 100%.

Find a local roaster, or a roaster that will ship coffee within 24-48 hours after roasting. The reality is you can often get fresh, locally roasted coffee for the same price or less than what you can get national brands for like Starbucks, Pete's or premiums like Stumptown. If you're a 2-4 cup a day, expect to need 1.5 - 2 pounds (~1kilo) a month. That's probably ~ $30 in fresh beans. (depends on what a "cup" means to you in terms of volume, but 2 pounds of beans makes quite a bit of coffee). YMMV, but that's a conservative estimate.

After that, investment in fancy equipment is much more marginal so make investments that fit your needs.

The next big step up in quality comes from temperature (regular drip coffee machines just don't get hot enough for the best flavor extraction), but solutions to better temperature brewing usually require more direct attention at brew time. Pour-over is great and inexpensive, and even if you don't take the time to carefully poor for 5 minutes and just dump, you'll get decent results. The Aeropress is another option in the same price range that can be marginally faster and also has really good flavor results. I use one frequently.

Impatient? Well, if you're thinking of spending $2+/cup on instant (where you still have to heat the water for those that want hot coffee) because you're in such a hurry, consider what that will cost you in a year and look at investing in something like a Breville Barista Express* or independent burr grinder and espresso machine. You can grind beans and pull a shot in less than a minute. Drink Americanos (espresso + hot water to yield what is essentially a regular cup of coffee. Flavor IS different than drip/pour-over though. maybe taste at a good coffee shop first (not starbucks)) or drink cafe-au-lait (warm milk+espresso) or even just espresso shots. You'll be net positive in about a year if you're drinking around two cups a day. This route also ends up wasting less coffee than making a whole pot and never finishing it (to be fair, also a pro of Sudden/instant).

* This isn't a plug for Breville explicitly (I DO have one, though), it's just that the Breville is really the only machine of it's type on the market (a grinder and true-espresso machine in one housing, not a super-automatic like the Jura). You CAN get great (maybe better) results with separate grinder and espresso units that have better qualities independently, but you won't necessarily be saving money. Imho, never buy a super-automatic.

You can easily spend ridiculous money on coffee and equipment. For most people, it's not worth it unless you want coffee to be your other hobby, (or, "snobby" as I'd probably call it). For me, it's just sourcing fresh beans at ~$20-$30/month and that gets me most 90% of my enjoyment for my multiple daily cups of coffee. I enjoy my Aeropress, Chemex and espresso machine, but they'd be useless without good, fresh beans.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#214

I work in the coffee industry and saw Sudden pop up last year so was interested in the technique and hacked it out. Freeze dried coffee is already what Folgers does and sell you. This is the more artisanal version of that since the big brands have big factories that can pump out plenty of instant coffee grounds. So this is a ramped up volume play on existing techniques perfected by the doomsday preppers. Youtube sear…

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out. Anyone else on here who abstains from caffeine?

> I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out

Do you have any evidence for this or is it a hmm-I-better-not-vaccinate-my-children-because-I-think-it-will-give-them-autism type statement?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i was thinking the same - via is definitely the best instant ive tasted

Though it looks like Via comes out to $0.60/cup while Sudden is $2.50/cup. That's pretty steep.

Yeah, that's a serious obstacle, I think.

Via makes a decent cup of coffee which is good as "back-up" for situations where you can't make coffee in a normal way. It's cost/serving is comparable to what you would pay for good beans. I am thinking something like 12oz of La Colombe Corsica ($12) @ 20g/dose => $0.70/serving.

$2+/serving for Sudden seems "out there" for a subscription service which, by definition, is intended for regular use.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of the things you just mentioned are easy or cheap, so i feel like minimizing the "what they're doing" part is a bit strange, or maybe that's just how i read your text. most businesses when analyzed on paper like this are very simple, or are re-packaging existing ideas. that's not something i would put against a business idea. having said that, the primary reason i pound cold brew instead of making 2 or 3 aeropr…

The tone might have been negative, so my apologies. There's a lot of value add that Sudden is bringing to the table. Most obvious being sourcing, second being operations, third being logistics of getting the boxes to you, then lastly fourth--and most important--is marketing. Coffee for the most part is bullshit, much like the wine industry. A small part of the audience want to hobnob about taste. For some reason ever…

Great response - appreciate the clarification and all makes sense.

Yeah, those are all the real challenges we face. Marketing for us is a big one - as many people have pointed out about our website :-)

I think it's our job as a business to figure out a way to make it mainstream. It's going to take creativity, hard work, and a great tasting product - but that's the challenge we are signing up for to be honest. We are not here to make a niche product. Everything we are working towards is making this something the majority of people can enjoy. If you talked to my parents in the 70's, the idea of a Starbucks style cafe where you pay $5 for an iced latte was ludicrous, but now it's mainstream (I'm not saying its a ripoff either, its just something we didn't know we'd want).

What we see is a huge gap in the market. If you live in a select few big cities, you have this huge exposure to specialty coffee and it tastes great. If you live anywhere else - it is a whole lot harder to experience coffee that tastes this good. We believe that the average person truly does want to experience great tasting coffee - they just don't have access.

*Caveat that I always add - that doesn't mean there isn't room for other coffee either. McDonalds is a mainstream burger restaurant but there is still a place for 10 other fast food companies, a whole spectrum of high end burgers, etc. We aren't trying to replace every way to drink coffee - just provide a new alternative that tastes awesome.

Really enjoyed your comments - thanks for writing!

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#217
post #174
post #148

I would love to try this out but you guys don't post to Australia yet :(

We did international shipping until Jan but it turned out to be just a pain. A lot of shipments got stuck in customs or got lost - it wasn't the customer experience we wanted and not really worth it for us

It did make smile when I looked at the country drop-down and the options were United States, Canada, and… Finland.

I also recommend offering a one-off ordering option. It offers a try-before-you-commit option, as well as for those who normally brew, but would buy some of this for when they travel.

I would also recommend adding Australia to your country drop-down, but I have ulterior motives there.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#218
post #188
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You need to keep it frozen, right? That makes it a lot more complicated + probably issues with the colloids (we experienced that at one point) 2) The bigger challenge is actually brewing large amount of ristrettos/espressos, not necessarily concentrating it. 3) just sounds way too complicated to me to rival/equal soluble coffee Edit: haven't really looked into any of these as a feasible option for us.

This might be a trade secret, but how are you keeping the colloid solution coherent? I'm kinda surprised you say that brewing the ristrettos are the hard parts. I know that centrifugal brewing is all the rage these days (as siphon, pour-over, and espresso were before), but it seems like automating espresso is a solved problem. Are there no industrial-scale burr grinders? I think the biggest problem would be tamping a…

The part re: colloids is a trade secret at this point, but definitely a real challenge.

As far as we could find, there is no common solution for industrial scale espresso. If someone has one, please post it here. This was a personal obsession of mine last spring - "How does this not exist?!?"

Kalle is the coffee expert, but as the 'non-coffee guy', I have no idea why this wouldn't exist - I would have thought someone out there would need it?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#219
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is your target? If people want good tasting coffee, like a connoisseur, one would like the option of selecting the type of bean, where it is sourced from, how it's roasted, how it's ground, how it's brewed etc. People even vehemently oppose and stand by brewing methods, which to an ordinary person who doesn't care about coffee, wouldn't care about. And if someone is buying instant coffee anyways, I doubt they car…

I don't know how common it is but I bring an aeropress and hand grinder whenever I travel. It's a ton of work and sucks. I drink pour over everyday (dial in temp, grind, ratio, and draw time for every new coffee), make iced coffee during summer, and subscribe to a coffee service. In theory, this would work better. I have no idea if the addressable market is big enough but I certainly wouldn't mind trying it.

I actually like to process of grinding and pressing. Bag space is the only downside, and the reason I don't take my aeropress and grinder with me when I travel.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is your target? If people want good tasting coffee, like a connoisseur, one would like the option of selecting the type of bean, where it is sourced from, how it's roasted, how it's ground, how it's brewed etc. People even vehemently oppose and stand by brewing methods, which to an ordinary person who doesn't care about coffee, wouldn't care about. And if someone is buying instant coffee anyways, I doubt they car…

I know lots of people who would pay for good instant coffee for a few weeks out of the year. I like to backpack and many people love their coffee and jump through hoops to get their fix in the backcountry. They would definitely be into good coffee that is portable and instant with just hot water.

Yes. You definitely need to market this to the backpacking crowd. They'll blow $100's on light, compact gear and then shove beans + grinder + aeropress on top... and then deal with the mess. Or at least, I will :)

The subscription model isn't great in this respect.

I travel up to a dozen times a year and backpack at least a couple weeks per year (in aggregate).

So that's 3x2x12 (3 cups per day of travel for each work trip) + 3x14 (backpacking trips). And probably another dozen or three here or there for random stuff (full-day bike rides, long drives, run out of beans @ work, etc.)

If I like Sudden, and especially if it's better than Starbucks drip served at airports, I'd use it for all of these things.

But I'm not going to+ sign up for a subscription because the vast majority of the year I'm happy with my espresso machine at home and decent drip at work. It's not like hygiene products where I just need a steady drip. My demand for instant coffee is very bursty. I expect that's true of others as well.

Maybe the logistics just don't work out without a subscription model, which is fine. And I certainly won't pretend to know what I'm talking about. But you're definitely losing one potential customer by forcing me to do a monthly subscription :)

Also, something is confusing in your ordering page. How many servings of coffee do I get for $19? I feel like that'd be useful information to have somewhere on the order page. Is it 8 cups of instant grounds? Or enough instant groups for 8 "cups" of coffee?

--

+ well actually, I am to try it out. But I won't mess with starting/canceling the subscription in the future. If you gave me a way to schedule things though, that would convert me for sure, assuming I enjoy the coffee.

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