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Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

techblog.netflix.com

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Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#311

Post by usrusr »

zanny wrote: post #258
wildmusings wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is reasonable DRM a problem in the first place? I'm paying Netflix $8 a month to watch thousands of movies whenever I want. Being constrained to a large number of devices that take some steps to prevent someone from ripping the movies is a fair tradeoff. It works flawlessly on my computer, on my phone, and on my xbox. The DRM hasn't bothered me once.

Because I'm going to immediately argue with you that there is no reasonable DRM. It comes from two ideological positions. One believes that content creators need complete systemic control of what they make - at all costs (that the creator maintains full control no matter how the content is interacted with) - and the other is that content shouldn't be controlled (or that I, as a buyer of content, should control the co…

So, install a DRM-free browser on your universal computer and get a dedicated box for the subscription service? Except for perfectly avoidable waste, what did I miss?

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#312

Post by flukus »

mintplant wrote: post #184
apostacy wrote: post #127

This is the strategy Microsoft tried over a decade ago with ActiveX. And Firefox saved us. It was starting to be normalized, to have to install ActiveX controls to view certain content. Companies like CinemaNow[1] offered Netflix-like streaming movie services using Microsoft's ActiveX based Janus DRM over a decade ago. Thankfully, the community had more of a backbone back then. Firefox and Linux were not broken becau…

> Now, the same thing is happening again, except that Mozilla is on board with it. Mozilla doesn't have as much leverage now that a large part of "the community" has abandoned Firefox for Chrome. If you care about these issues, stop and consider the effect of your choice in user agent. > It's only a matter of time until Firefox is just a wrapper for webkit It will be a very cold day in hell before this happens. Mozil…

> Mozilla doesn't have as much leverage now that a large part of "the community" has abandoned Firefox for Chrome. If you care about these issues, stop and consider the effect of your choice in user agent.

Mozilla still has nearly an order of magnitude more market share than they did when activex was everywhere.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#313

Post by merb »

izacus wrote: post #153
criddell wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, the DRM is still not standard. Only the interface to it is. Is a programming language a good analogy? The C++ spec says what a switch-statement should do, but nothing about how it must be implemented, right? > New browsers face a new barrier to entry It's not really a new barrier to entry though, is it? If I wrote a browser last year, were my chances of getting Netflix to support it better then than they are…

> Is a programming language a good analogy? The C++ spec says what a switch-statement should do, but nothing about how it must be implemented, right? No it isn't. Example: Netflix will ask for Widevine DRM provider (and exactly that provider!). It's a proprietary closed licensed platform and your system needs to have their binary blob licensed and compiled for it. If you don't have it and didn't pay for it, you won't…

well at least as it looks Widevine has no license fees for Device Manufacturers i.e. browsers. You only need to contact them. Not sure how this company makes any money tough. (maybe through training courses)

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#314

Post by Karlozkiller »

CaptSpify wrote: post #310
tptacek wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple have very little leverage. If even one major studio withdrew all their content from Apple and only made it available on Netflix, Apple could potentially lose millions of subscribers. People want to watch what they want to watch.

> People want to watch what they want to watch. You keep using this phrase. Doesn't that also suggest that, if given enough trouble, they will just pirate that content instead? DRM has shown to do very little to stop that, so why continue pretending that it does.

> > People want to watch what they want to watch.

> You keep using this phrase. Doesn't that also suggest that, if given enough trouble, they will just pirate that content instead?

Not to point any fingers, but I can confirm that this happens, a lot.

But regardless of my personal views of DRM and its efficiency, kudos to Netflix for targeting Linux as a platform, even if they do it for their own pockets' sake.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#315

Post by CaptSpify »

guyzero wrote: post #185
blitmap wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is DRM has been used for more than digital rights management. We've seen it used to surveill the user and collect information - and restrict actions on the users' computer when it thinks you're doing something illicit (not allowing you to burn things to disc, restricting the ability to screenshot videos, uninstalling/deleting programs, adding rootkits, etc). Far outside the scope of providing authorized a…

The major EME providers are PlayReady, which is Microsoft, and Widevine, which is Google. You've already given those two companies pretty broad permission to run binaries on your computer (unless you use Firefox on Linux) so I'm not sure what the incremental security issue really is.

That's quite the invalid assumption. Additionally, if I let Google run binaries on my system in one spot, it does not mean I have given them full access to run binaries elsewhere.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#316

Post by bunderbunder »

flukus wrote: post #297
dasil003 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

I think you're living in fantasy world where DRM actually works. Not once has DRM prevented me from watching a netflix show, it's only prevented me from watching it on netflix.

DRM works to do the only thing it was ever really meant to do, which is give copyright holders warm fuzzies so that they're more willing to put their content up for sale on legal channels that don't require much in the way of technical savvy to use. Which means that it also works for the vast majority of consumers, since that's all they really ever wanted in the first place.

The whole bit about preventing people from copying content is just a feel good story that's told to TV executives in order to further DRM's primary purpose.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#317

Post by dkonofalski »

criley2 wrote: post #187
dkonofalski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm just looking too far into your comment, but I don't see why you're blaming Netflix (or it seems you are) or how you got to them being the bad guys for this? They're not the ones that make the content. If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and they have to bow to the demands of the content distrib…

"I don't know if I'm just looking too far into your comment, but I don't see why you're blaming Netflix (or it seems you are) or how you got to them being the bad guys for this? They're not the ones that make the content. If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and they have to bow to the demands of the content distri…

While I agree that there's always an upstream to hot potato too, Netflix really isn't in a position to make those kinds of demands. That's part of the reason why they're starting to produce their own content. The majority of the revenue in their business model comes from the content they show and the majority of that content is owned by someone else. If there wasn't historical precedent of companies giving Netflix the finger and pulling all of their content from their service, I would say that Netflix could push the boundaries and take a stand to try and make a change in the right direction. Unfortunately, until losing Netflix as a platform hurts the movie studios and publishers, that's not going to happen.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#318

Post by Karlozkiller »

flukus wrote: post #297
dasil003 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

I think you're living in fantasy world where DRM actually works. Not once has DRM prevented me from watching a netflix show, it's only prevented me from watching it on netflix.

> I think you're living in fantasy world where DRM actually works. Not once has DRM prevented me from watching a netflix show, it's only prevented me from watching it on netflix.

Yes, yes, and yes. DRM has blocked me from Netflix as a Linux user (not anymore obviously), blocked me from games due to bugs in the DRM in windows and or rootkits, and blocked me because the DRM does not work in Linux while the actual game does. And often you can find DRM free piracy versions.

DRM is a pestilence that blocks legitimate use.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#319

Post by dkonofalski »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #182
dkonofalski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm just looking too far into your comment, but I don't see why you're blaming Netflix (or it seems you are) or how you got to them being the bad guys for this? They're not the ones that make the content. If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and they have to bow to the demands of the content distrib…

> If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. That is SO UNTRUE. Netflix would never want their content to be distributed by anyone other than them, which is the point of DRM; absolute control over distribution, not copy protection. If Netflix was against DRM, then why release their first party content DRM ensnared?

That's not necessarily true. It may just be a matter of efficiency. Because all the other content requires DRM, they may have a processing workflow or other technology that just DRMs any and all content in a single, unified manner. Changing that workflow to bypass DRM may actually make it more complicated. You also have to consider that their first party content is rather new so this could absolutely be something that they're working on doing but never implemented because it wasn't an option when they weren't producing their own content.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#320

Post by dkonofalski »

teej wrote: post #179
dkonofalski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm just looking too far into your comment, but I don't see why you're blaming Netflix (or it seems you are) or how you got to them being the bad guys for this? They're not the ones that make the content. If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and they have to bow to the demands of the content distrib…

I get your argument but a larger portion than ever of Netflix's catalog is first party content.

That doesn't mean that the majority of their catalog is. Everything they do will be optimized for what they have the most of.
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