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Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

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Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#51

Post by pc86 »

banterfoil wrote: post #35

Students' Expected Salaries was the most surprising section for me. As a US soon to be grad, those numbers seemed surprisingly low. Perhaps the numbers are a lot less outside the US? I don't even think I could find a dev position that pays $30,000.

Where are you in the US? Cost of living plays a major role in salary pressure in both directions, especially on the lower rungs of the ladder. Adjusted for (not much, but measurable) inflation my first job paid $32k. Entry-level dev jobs in my area are in the $40-50k range depending on the technology and company.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#52

Post by pc86 »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #29

The "Years of coding experience" statistics are interesting in a number of ways IMHO. Is there an interpretation why it doesn't go down linearly, but has up and down micro-cycles? Is the bump at "more than 20 years" of coding experience just an artifact of not assessing answers with over 20 years of experience at finer granularity?

> Is the bump at "more than 20 years" of coding experience just an artifact of not assessing answers with over 20 years of experience at finer granularity?

I would think so. If someone started a programming job right out of school (~22 years old), and is still programming today, that would be any developer who is ~43 or older. I would say at least 1/4-1/3 of my former and current colleagues would fall into that age bracket. Not all of them started programming out school but many of them did for sure.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#53

Post by srssays »

flurdy wrote: post #36
yulaow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of US, very few people use macs compared to you. Here in euw even in a CS course, engineering class in a top university or hackathon in a big startup incubator I can see like 1 macbook every 30 standard notebooks. Reason is simple: they are very overpriced for ours salaries (and I am in a first world country, I think their costs are prohibitive in places like India/Cina/etc) and - personal reason - as a webde…

As you say that depends on income. Based on location and whom you mix with. And perhaps some culture bias/patterns but that is my just guessing. Macs have dominated in the areas I have worked in for the past 6 years. I would say in the companies, hands-on meetups and conferences I been to in London and across Scandinavia: 75% use macbooks, then perhaps 15% dell xps with ubuntu and 10% mix of lenovo, MS surface etc. T…

London is special because there are a lot of Apple stores here (I count 7). That's more than many European countries have.

The calculus of owning a Mac changes drastically if you live near an Apple store. If my Mac has a problem, I can book an appointment at the Apple store, real person will try to fix it, and I can have it back ASAP. The customer service is half the price.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#55

Post by atulatul »

manaskarekar wrote: post #23

Most Loved Language: Rust Most Wanted Language: Python It's good to see these two languages win out these categories! Good things lie ahead (hopefully).

Wikipedia updated with 2017 results:Rust won first place for "most loved programming language" in the Stack Overflow Developer Survey in 2016 and 2017.

Love the site.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#57

Post by kbart »

SiVal wrote: post #14

I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%. Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on. The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs, while the answer to the question above…

Developers that attend conferences in USA are very small and biased subset of total developers worldwide. For vast majority of developers attending a conference in USA would cost few to several months worth of salary, so it's no brainer. Not to mention bullish USA border controls that makes people (especially non-white) think twice before traveling. I haven't seen many developers using Macs outside of USA and few Western Europe countries.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#58

Post by dragonwriter »

srssays wrote: post #53
flurdy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you say that depends on income. Based on location and whom you mix with. And perhaps some culture bias/patterns but that is my just guessing. Macs have dominated in the areas I have worked in for the past 6 years. I would say in the companies, hands-on meetups and conferences I been to in London and across Scandinavia: 75% use macbooks, then perhaps 15% dell xps with ubuntu and 10% mix of lenovo, MS surface etc. T…

London is special because there are a lot of Apple stores here (I count 7). That's more than many European countries have. The calculus of owning a Mac changes drastically if you live near an Apple store. If my Mac has a problem, I can book an appointment at the Apple store, real person will try to fix it, and I can have it back ASAP. The customer service is half the price.

> London is special because there are a lot of Apple stores here (I count 7). That's more than many European countries have.

Probably because London has more people than most European countries.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#60

Post by pluma »

k__ wrote: post #30
pluma wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a web dev these days I feel like we have it the easiest: If you want to do mobile, try making it a PWA. If it needs to be in the app store (which these days I often see portrayed as more of a necessary evil than something desirable) go hybrid. If hybrid is too slow, try React Native or NativeScript. All of these can build on your existing knowledge of web technologies. If you want a desktop app, you probably don't…

Sure. There are many ways to leverage your Web knowledge, you don't have to start from zero. But it's still a chore to do mobile development. I want to build a iOS app, because 80% of the potential customers are iPhone users, but in the future I want to use as much of the code on Android. So its Hybrid or React-Native. So I thought, well Expo sounds nice, and gives me a Web like dev experience without the need to set…

Oh, absolutely. For some reason Apple seems to have filled Microsoft's role as the big bad legacy bad guy with vendor lock-in.

Is it even possible to run macOS in a VM on non-Apple hardware with a non-macOS host yet? Microsoft provides free VM images for every OS and browser version you might want to test against, Google provides the Android devkit that works cross-platform. But if you want to target macOS or iOS it seems you're still stuck buying Apple hardware for $$$ to do anything. And don't even get me started on the lackluster support for PWAs -- at least the fallback for those is a web app that still works in the browser (provided you have Apple hardware to test it on).

EDIT: Also Microsoft has moved React Windows into its official GitHub org and advertises it as an official way to provide extensions to Office.

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