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Developer Preview of Android O

android-developers.googleblog.com

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#91

the multi-display thing makes me ponder a RPi Android "desktop" or similar. Seems that slowly Google is coming round to where Android was heading back around 3.x-4.0.

> the multi-display thing makes me ponder a RPi Android "desktop" or similar.

I think this is Google's response to Continuum.

If Microsoft comes out with a really good implementation of a docked phone, Google needs to have a response ready for their platform. Normal users probably won't care, but anyone who is interested in productivity knows how crucial a monitor and multi-window/tasking support is.

It usually takes 1 or 2 release cycles for Google to finalize a feature, so by starting now they're signaling intent to have some kind of mature feature by 2018-19.

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#92
> AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio.

It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here.

Yes, iPhone is better than android, but it's still not workable as an instrument.

OTOH fully electronic digital instruments have been mainstream for decades. Is it because we are somehow able to accept terrible visual latency in games (recently exacerbated by network latency)? And so our systems get optimized for throughput performance (resolution, fps etc) at the cost of latency? Though the latency problem rears its ugly head again in VR. Seems to need to be sub 10-15ms, end-to-end (from human input to output), for both VR visual and audio.

Anyway, I think better audio latency requires a redesign of the entire system, and it's not clear than this new API has that support behind it.

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#93
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the NDK developer experience is still pretty awful compared with what C and C++ developers have at their disposal on iOS and UWP SDKs. https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?can=2&q=NDK&so...

That explains all of the low latency audio apps on windows phone. Oh wait...

Just because a free OS with no strings attached is loved by OEMs, it doesn't mean its developer tools are a pleasure to use.

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#94
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until then, I guess I'll continue targeting API 16. I started targeting API 19 (4.4, KitKat) over a year ago and have never looked back. That encompasses the vast bulk of Android users (>85%) and encompasses almost all of the significant developer improvements. Even using the absolute latest fun such as multiple windows is an absolute breeze from the development side, regardless of many users not supporting it yet. A…

> 85% you are ignoring your own effect on that. The fact that every developer moved to API 19+ is why most users gave up and spent another $400~600 on a new unneeded phone. And thanks to that, no manufacturer will ever support the latest release on a month old phone, because they now know people will just buy a new one.

The majority of users never spend $400~600 on a new phone.

Most of people are on pre-pay and not everyone can afford those prices.

Here in this side of the planet, you get KitKat devices around 50 €, then Lollipop start selling around 100 €.

For Marshmallow, usually the prices start at 200 € and most devices are only available on a few shops or online.

As for Nougat, I am yet to see any shop selling them.

So no, most people that just want a phone, any Android phone, will get one of those KitKat/Lollipop devices with their pre-paid card.

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#95
post #79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually one reason (well, among many, many others) I don't develop anything for Android except some toy apps I made for my kids (using a third-party C++ development kit). There's something about the entire Java ecosystem that just grates on me in a way that no other language does, and years ago when I first dipped my foot into mobile development on Android it seems like that OS amplified it all. I can't even…

What is your opinion on Dart? I could see Google encouraging devs to learn Dart and make Flutter apps soon. Probably at I/O.

It is not Google encouraging devs, it is the Dart team looking for reasons to keep going, besides Ad Words.

Just go watch any Android Fireside at Google IO or the responses of Android team at Reddit.

Java is Android's language, with C and C++ just being there to the extent of implementing Java native methods, low latency code and code from other platforms, not full blown access to the OS APIs.

As an example of an discussion regarding Scala, after their annoucement to ditch Jack and start anew their cherry picked features from Java 8.

"Java is the language we officially support."

https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/5zf1xo/future_o...

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#96

Too bad the OEMs don't keep up. Only 2% of devices have Android 7 (N). http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/android-distribution-new...

It can't help that Google hasn't released a phone comparable in spirit to the Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 phones. We're talking about phones that have a practical size, reasonably good specs, and a $300-$400 price tag. The Nexus 6 and 6P were impractically sized for many users. Even the 5X was too large. The Pixel's sizing is perhaps more tolerable, but the price tag is much too high. People hanging on to a Nex…

I live in Japan. There is still no news about whether the Pixel is coming to Japan. How can I take the ecosystem seriously when Google is telling me "we don't care about your market"?

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#97

> AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio. It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here. Yes, iPhone is better than android, but i…

I assume this API is based on the work of Samsung has done for their own private APIs.

http://developer.samsung.com/galaxy/professional-audio

Last Google IO they had a session about all workarounds for improving the audio developers experience and they got Samsung on stage to talk about their SDK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZDp-eNrh4

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#98

> AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio. It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here. Yes, iPhone is better than android, but i…

Audio latency on ios devices is less than 10 ms (iirc about 6-7 ms). It's not ideal but saying it's "not workable" is an exaggeration. Also I don't believe the latency for computing devices is worse compared to digital instruments because we accept it, but because digital instruments have always had an advantage due to their specialization.

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#99

> AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio. It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here. Yes, iPhone is better than android, but i…

> > AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio.

> It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here.

> Yes, iPhone is better than android, but it's still not workable as an instrument.

> OTOH fully electronic digital instruments have been mainstream for decades. Is it because we are somehow able to accept terrible visual latency in games (recently exacerbated by network latency)? And so our systems get optimized for throughput performance (resolution, fps etc) at the cost of latency? Though the latency problem rears its ugly head again in VR. Seems to need to be sub 10-15ms, end-to-end (from human input to output), for both VR visual and audio.

> Anyway, I think better audio latency requires a redesign of the entire system, and it's not clear than this new API has that support behind it.

> > AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio.

> It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here.

> Yes, iPhone is better than android, but it's still not workable as an instrument.

> OTOH fully electronic digital instruments have been mainstream for decades. Is it because we are somehow able to accept terrible visual latency in games (recently exacerbated by network latency)? And so our systems get optimized for throughput performance (resolution, fps etc) at the cost of latency? Though the latency problem rears its ugly head again in VR. Seems to need to be sub 10-15ms, end-to-end (from human input to output), for both VR visual and audio.

> Anyway, I think better audio latency requires a redesign of the entire system, and it's not clear than this new API has that support behind it.

> > AAudio API for Pro Audio: AAudio is a new native API that's designed specifically for apps that require high-performance, low-latency audio.

> It's always seemed so weird to me how terrible audio latency is... not just on android, but also on consoles (guitar hero, rockband etc), where it makes them utterly unplayable as instruments - I'm thinking mainly of the drumkits here.

> Yes, iPhone is better than android, but it's still not workable as an instrument.

> OTOH fully electronic digital instruments have been mainstream for decades. Is it because we are somehow able to accept terrible visual latency in games (recently exacerbated by network latency)? And so our systems get optimized for throughput performance (resolution, fps etc) at the cost of latency? Though the latency problem rears its ugly head again in VR. Seems to need to be sub 10-15ms, end-to-end (from human input to output), for both VR visual and audio.

> Anyway, I think better audio latency requires a redesign of the entire system, and it's not clear than this new API has that support behind it.

"iPhone is better than android"

Are you comparing iPhone to the totality of Android-running devices available, or iOS to the Android OS?

Re: Developer Preview of Android O

#100

Too bad the OEMs don't keep up. Only 2% of devices have Android 7 (N). http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/android-distribution-new...

It can't help that Google hasn't released a phone comparable in spirit to the Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 phones. We're talking about phones that have a practical size, reasonably good specs, and a $300-$400 price tag. The Nexus 6 and 6P were impractically sized for many users. Even the 5X was too large. The Pixel's sizing is perhaps more tolerable, but the price tag is much too high. People hanging on to a Nex…

And although they said all along they'd do it, Google dropped new development for the Nexus 6. Which is too bad for those of us who want a phablet and would benefit from all the battery improvements.

Hopefully if Google releases another like-sized device it's better than the N6 which becomes unusable as soon as CPU throttling starts. As soon as battery gets below 70% it literally takes seconds for mundane tasks like opening a new browser or keyboard.

I don't expect Google to fix it on the N6 but I really hope they don't recreate that experience on their next offering because it's beyond frustrating.

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