The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
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The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
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Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#2this is what RMS has been trying to warn us about...
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#3I have generally thought that any black market like this one is a sign of an opportunity for a better product. Is this universally the case? Are there black markets where there is not an opportunity for disruption?
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#4How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#5Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market on that would be.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#6How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.
My dad is a mechanical engineer who loves cars. I spent my youth listening to him lamenting the fact that modern cara have too many electronics and DIY protections. That you can't even make an oil change without also notifying the computer, the interface for which is proprietary and only sold to licensed dealers, or the car would refuse to run because it would think its oil is bad.
He reminisced about the good old days when all you needed was a wrench and a hammer and you could fix anything on a car.
This was 10 years ago. I imagine it's only gotten worse since.
Coincidentally he grew up on a farm where they would hack and build from scratch all sorts of farm equipment.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#7> Kluthe, for example, uses pig manure to power his tractor, which requires engine modifications that would likely violate John Deere's terms of service on newer machines.
> "I take the hog waste and run it through an anaerobic digester and I've learned to compress the methane," he said. "I run an 80 percent methane in my Chevy Diesel Pickup and I run 90 percent methane in my tractor. And they both purr. I take a lot of pride in working on my equipment."
There's also a chance that this violates EPA laws around Tier IV emissions. Totally sympathize with not being able to repair existing equipment but I think it's important to separate it from things that can have emission implications(much in the same way you can't go dumping tons of RF everywhere over protected spectrum on your router).
That said I wonder if Case IH/Claas/etc has similar agreements.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#8How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.
My dad is a mechanical engineer who loves cars. I spent my youth listening to him lamenting the fact that modern cara have too many electronics and DIY protections. That you can't even make an oil change without also notifying the computer, the interface for which is proprietary and only sold to licensed dealers, or the car would refuse to run because it would think its oil is bad. He reminisced about the good old da…
[citation needed]
There is no vehicle on the market (that I know of) which will refuse to run without an oil change.
On my 17 year old BMW and 2 year old VW, the oil service indicator is just a reminder, a courtesy. On the BMW I can reset it with a paper clip. On the VW I can reset it on the screen on the dash.
Honestly, most of the major things that go wrong with cars these days are still mechanical, and are still fixed in the old-fashioned way. I've done countless brake jobs, oil changes, suspension changes, fluid changes, cooling system swaps, and never once been stymied by a computer.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#9Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market on that would be.
since all manufacturers just assemble readily available parts , time to market will probably be less than software.
you'd be surprised how many common parts are in a ford and bmw. Mostly exterior and dashboard are trade secrets today.
Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking
#10Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market on that would be.
If you think the capital costs for Tesla are bad try getting into a smaller market where tractors start at ~$150k. Kubota has been trying to go upmarket but it's not something that can be done overnight.
I'd be more curious if some of the other players(NH, Case IH, Claas, etc) could use this to their advantage. You see similar things in the CUT(Compact Utility Tractor) segment where LS/Kioti/Mahindra generally offer much more capabilities/features over Kubota and JD.