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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#421

Post by [deleted] »

Fomite wrote: post #327
dnautics wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't ascribe malice. Most companies usually do it because the it's the safest way to avoid a legal fight. The more detailed and convoluted the contract becomes the more expensive and time-consuming it becomes to adjudicate. How do you decide whether a 'side-project' is related or unrelated to the work? It's easy to point out obvious cases. (E.g. "I'm a coder and I design a mini golf course for my buddy") but th…

While that in and of itself is problematic, the real objection in the post you're replying to is the "I don't know that I want to hire someone who does creative things outside of work". That's well beyond being defensive in your contract structure.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#422

Post by ghurtado »

ambrice wrote: post #406
ghurtado wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand: all work done by an independent contractor is by default "work made for hire" unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Not according to the Copyright Act of 1976: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html A “work made for hire” is— (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an inst…

Well, I'll be damned: it looks like you're right.

I think I was probably misremembering my experience as a software contractor, in that I don't think I ever signed a single contract that did not include the "work for hire" stipulation.

Ironically, it seems far from clear that "work for hire" even applies to software: http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=59a4a8c4-c446-...

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#423

Post by paulddraper »

gnopgnip wrote: post #270
adanto6840 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the seller stands to pay your agent 3% of the sale proceeds, the seller will typically be happy to reduce the price by 3% if you don't have an agent. I just sold a condo in Minneapolis using a flat fee company -- fantastic experience and will never use a realtor again, save for maybe if looking internationally in a very unfamiliar area perhaps.

This is generally not true. The seller of the home has a contract with the listing realtor. If there is no second realtor the listing realtor will usually get 5% or 5.5% instead of just 3%.

Depends. If that's the situation, you find a realtor who will sign and give you most all of their commission.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#424

Post by jbigelow76 »

strictnein wrote: post #224
shawnee_ wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

Every time I buy or sell a home, I'm very thankful that one of my friends has a realtor's license. None of that 7% BS. None of the dumb games they play. How it came about that the services of two realtors was worth $35k on a $500k home is beyond me. Especially in this day and age, where we all just look online and tell our realtors what houses we want to go to. Half the work they used to do is now done by the client.

Two words: bidding war. My realtor was worth every penny she got.

And I don't know where you are located but I've always known the standard commission to be 6% (3 to buyer and 3 to seller agents). But everything is negotiable, I got mine done at 5%. She knocked 1% of the seller agent fee to be my buyer agent on the next transaction when her fee wouldn't come out of my pocket. She got me a second great deal, could I have gotten the same? Maybe, but knowing that negotiation isn't my strong suit, probably not.

But then again, most people buy houses so infrequently that one or two experiences either good or bad is going to color your whole outlook on the industry. I've been lucky enough that my few experiences look like net wins from my perspective.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#425

Post by gech »

superbatfish wrote: post #143
bluejekyll wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies can't track your thinking. They can know when you're using their equipment. I'm fine with them owning what I do with their hardware, networks, anything they pay for... but they can not own my off-time, and they most certainly do not own my mind. What I build in my offtime is mine; this is in fact where every entrepreneur starts. What you're proposing is that all innovation should stay in the hands of the em…

If the company wants all of your ideas, even the ones you come up with on the weekends, then they should offer you a higher salary than the companies that don't demand that time. As it turns out, many companies do exactly this. And (apparently) their developers decided it was a fair deal. But if you don't like that deal, that's an entirely reasonable choice. In that case, just don't work for such a company, even if t…

You're not aware or either purposefully ignorant to the power dynamic inherent to the employer/employee situation.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#426

Post by RhodesianHunter »

pjmlp wrote: post #28
lostboys67 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad that having even minimal employee rights is some how seen as exceptional.

From someone that is able to enjoy proper work conditions in socialist Europe, the state of work condition expectations in US is always surprising. Sometimes I get the feeling that even my own country (Portugal), with all its issues regarding work conditions, still appears to be in better shape.

From someone who would give his left leg to work in Europe, but not 4/5 of his salary, enjoy your wins!

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#427

Post by greglindahl »

mmalone wrote: post #194
matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

It's also interesting how infrequently this is actually enforced by employers. Outside of extreme cases (like the current waymo/uber litigation) I've never heard of it being enforced -- even when it's pretty obvious that IP was transferred (e.g., foursquare / dodgeball). I feel like it's in there because it always has been. I thought about removing it for my new business, but I'm worried about diligence issues if I e…

When IBM Watson bought Blekko we had to produce an IP assignment for 100% of the people who had ever worked on our IP. Elsewise, how would IBM know that they were actually buying something?

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#428

Post by greglindahl »

tajen wrote: post #158
matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

You are answering a big question of mine: "If I launch a PAAS product, am I allowed to copy Heroku's terms of use?". Seems like it's covered by copyright but it's IP-free zone, although "IANAL"... On the other hand, it would be a headache if contracts were covered by copyright: If your competitor adds a clause to their contract, can you add the same clause if it's covered by copyright, or are you forever banned from…

If you look at website Terms of Service etc., you'll see that there's huge amounts of copying between firms which compete with each other.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#429

Post by matwood »

paulddraper wrote: post #262
danielweber wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get a lawyer for your house transactions, you will pay a flat fee of less than $1000 and still get the advice to always have it inspected.

A lawyer? Geez, why a lawyer? They are highly qualified and expensive. Hire a flat-rate agent/broker. They'll technically be your agent, but you do all the leg work.

At least in my state, you have to hire a lawyer to do the transaction. They will make sure you did all the required steps, and charge a flat fee.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#430

Post by brandnewlow »

shawnee_ wrote: post #179
matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

Check out OpenListings. They're giving buyers a big chunk of the buy-side realtor fee to use how they see fit in the negotiations: https://www.openlistings.com/

(Am an investor)

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