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David Rockefeller has died

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Re: David Rockefeller has died

#231

Post by jimmyjohnson1 »

cholantesh wrote: post #138
lqdc13 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to point out that chiropractic medicine is not necessarily quackery. There are certainly some elements that may not always work, but there are also many things that do. The classes in the schools are certainly not a joke - they take real anatomy and real body mechanics, real radiology and real biochemistry - and the requirements for graduation are not trivial. Additionally, although scientific method has…

Chiropractic largely works because it has purged so much of its foundational ideas and is almost congruous to physiotherapy (albeit with more focus on manipulative therapy than exercise). >That's why some alternative medicine solutions sometimes work as well and even better than modern medicine. I can see some forms of alternative medicine being complementary (hence the name), such as meditation or yoga, but better?…

But the purging hasn't gone far enough. You have the likes of Life College, Sherman and even Cleveland who still hold to the debunked foundational ideas. Those who graduate from these schools are taught to be high visibility charlatans who are the ones seen by the decisionmakers (legislators, etc.) and keep the majority of chiropractors (evidenced based) from moving forward in the healthcare world.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#232

Post by jimmyjohnson1 »

cholantesh wrote: post #138
lqdc13 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to point out that chiropractic medicine is not necessarily quackery. There are certainly some elements that may not always work, but there are also many things that do. The classes in the schools are certainly not a joke - they take real anatomy and real body mechanics, real radiology and real biochemistry - and the requirements for graduation are not trivial. Additionally, although scientific method has…

Chiropractic largely works because it has purged so much of its foundational ideas and is almost congruous to physiotherapy (albeit with more focus on manipulative therapy than exercise). >That's why some alternative medicine solutions sometimes work as well and even better than modern medicine. I can see some forms of alternative medicine being complementary (hence the name), such as meditation or yoga, but better?…

No it hasn't--not as far as the decision makers (legislators) are concerned. Graduates of the schools who espouse the debunked foundational ideas (Life, Sherman and Cleveland) are generally high visibility charlatans who are seen by the legislators and those who work in mainstream healthcare. They also speak out against any progression by evidenced based chiropractors.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#233

Post by tptacek »

Exofunctor wrote: post #227
unityByFreedom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over a long period of time? Why not. America is nearly 100% immigrants.

> Why not. Because Europe is liberal, secular, literate, and (consequently) scientifically, technologically, and economically advanced. Africa is none of those things. Whatever your ideals about equality are, you cannot deny that there is something about Africans, whether it's their cultures or their religions or their DNA or some other factor. (In case you reflexively want to accuse me of racism for that last possib…

One wonders what it could be about Africans that enabled Europeans to progress so far past them in the 19th and 20th centuries. Perhaps it's their cultures, or their religions, or their DNA, but something sure painted a bulls-eye on the backs of all those people. The French, the British, the Germans, even --- christ, especially --- the Belgians.

We in the US have little trouble acknowledging the legacy of slavery in our country. That happened over a century ago. Rwanda didn't gain independence from Belgium, which engineered the sectarian divisions that produced the Rwandan genocide, until 1961. Apartheid didn't end in South Africa until the nineteen nineties.

It takes some kind of --something--- to suggest that the Europeans have something to fear from the Africans.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#234

Post by pvg »

Exofunctor wrote: post #227
unityByFreedom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over a long period of time? Why not. America is nearly 100% immigrants.

> Why not. Because Europe is liberal, secular, literate, and (consequently) scientifically, technologically, and economically advanced. Africa is none of those things. Whatever your ideals about equality are, you cannot deny that there is something about Africans, whether it's their cultures or their religions or their DNA or some other factor. (In case you reflexively want to accuse me of racism for that last possib…

The simplest explanation for why America is successful [...] where you think my argument falls apart factually

It doesn't even come together factually, let alone fall apart. The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US. Far worse of immigrants from East Asia. Entirely inexplicably, the country thrived and continues to do so.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#235

Post by aptwebapps »

pvg wrote: post #234
Exofunctor wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not. Because Europe is liberal, secular, literate, and (consequently) scientifically, technologically, and economically advanced. Africa is none of those things. Whatever your ideals about equality are, you cannot deny that there is something about Africans, whether it's their cultures or their religions or their DNA or some other factor. (In case you reflexively want to accuse me of racism for that last possib…

The simplest explanation for why America is successful [...] where you think my argument falls apart factually It doesn't even come together factually, let alone fall apart. The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US. Far worse of immigrants from East Asia. Entirely inexplicably, the country thrived and continues to do so.

"The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US."

This bears repeating. Exactly the same arguments were advanced by (otherwise) fairly intelligent people about whichever was the latest group. Those arguments were wrong, and this argument is wrong.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#236

Post by dang »

Exofunctor wrote: post #33

I am, by most metrics, an ardent globalist; I advocate absolute free trade and absolute free movement. However, it's not very hard to recognize that many people's definition of globalism effectively includes such things as forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

Generic ideological tangents are not interesting in HN's sense. They don't gratify intellectual curiosity. They merely retread the well-trodden, and a few people get hot and bothered while the rest of us yawn. This site is not for the hot and bothered to hijack; therefore we don't want generic ideological discussions on HN.

I was going to ask you to stop, but since you went into full-out ideological flamewar later, I'm banning your account instead. Please don't create accounts to do this with.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13915801 and marked it off-topic.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#237

Post by GFischer »

GCA10 wrote: post #159

I may be alone on this one, but I'm enchanted by David Rockefeller's long-ago crusade to create an "electronic Rolodex" of the 150,000 people he met in the course of his business career. The dude nearly invented LinkedIn! Of course, he forgot to allow access to anyone else, which limited the value of his efforts. And boasting about 150,000 isn't quite what it used to be. (More like an Ozymandias claim, in fact.) Anyw…

My father met a top exec (later president) of Toyota in the 80s, he came to my house and met our dog. Some time later we saw him writing on a little black notebook.

A decade later, the exec invited my father, and during the dinner conversation he asked about his children and dog by name... that was pretty impressive, and an example of how to manage relationships.

LinkedIn doesn't (yet) give you that kind of information (I guess some good CRMs do?)

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#238

Post by cholantesh »

jimmyjohnson1 wrote: post #232
cholantesh wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chiropractic largely works because it has purged so much of its foundational ideas and is almost congruous to physiotherapy (albeit with more focus on manipulative therapy than exercise). >That's why some alternative medicine solutions sometimes work as well and even better than modern medicine. I can see some forms of alternative medicine being complementary (hence the name), such as meditation or yoga, but better?…

No it hasn't--not as far as the decision makers (legislators) are concerned. Graduates of the schools who espouse the debunked foundational ideas (Life, Sherman and Cleveland) are generally high visibility charlatans who are seen by the legislators and those who work in mainstream healthcare. They also speak out against any progression by evidenced based chiropractors.

The first sentence in my reply ought to have been prefaced with a 'when'. I'm not aware of how prevalent evidence-based chiropractic is, or the politics associated with the original practice, but regardless my point is that it can hardly be called chiropractic and is probably redundant since physio exists.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#239

Post by Exofunctor »

pvg wrote: post #234
Exofunctor wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not. Because Europe is liberal, secular, literate, and (consequently) scientifically, technologically, and economically advanced. Africa is none of those things. Whatever your ideals about equality are, you cannot deny that there is something about Africans, whether it's their cultures or their religions or their DNA or some other factor. (In case you reflexively want to accuse me of racism for that last possib…

The simplest explanation for why America is successful [...] where you think my argument falls apart factually It doesn't even come together factually, let alone fall apart. The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US. Far worse of immigrants from East Asia. Entirely inexplicably, the country thrived and continues to do so.

> The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US.

First off, they were right about all these groups in one way or another. Italians were responsible for a huge and disproportionate fraction of east coast crime for decades, Jews are represented in politics at around an order of magnitude higher than their fraction of the population, polish communities (just like Poland) have huge problems with crime and drug abuse, and Irish communities are still getting over problems with poverty, alcoholism, and church abuses. The complaints levied against these groups were entirely correct, and these groups did culturally subsume large areas, as predicted. I say this as a descendent of 3 of those 4 groups.

Second off, you can't really compare hyper-indoctrinated muslims to the Italians. Catholicism is positively benign compared to any of the popular Islamic sects. Just because something vaguely similar happened before doesn't mean it's going to happen exactly the same way again.

> Entirely inexplicably, the country thrived and continues to do so.

Compared to what? I suspect if the Irish hadn't shitted up the east coast for decades America could be a lot farther ahead. (Again, saying this as someone who is substantially Irish.) Yes, we turned out OK, and the shitty culture that Irish and Polish people brought over with them has mostly been diluted to impotency, but who knows what the damage was, or how it's going to go down with an even shittier and more viral culture. At least the Irish didn't make a habit of stoning people to death.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#240

Post by Exofunctor »

aptwebapps wrote: post #235
pvg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest explanation for why America is successful [...] where you think my argument falls apart factually It doesn't even come together factually, let alone fall apart. The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US. Far worse of immigrants from East Asia. Entirely inexplicably, the country thrived and continues to do so.

"The same exact things were said of the Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish and many others that poured into the US." This bears repeating. Exactly the same arguments were advanced by (otherwise) fairly intelligent people about whichever was the latest group. Those arguments were wrong, and this argument is wrong.

Do you think Italian Catholics are as violent or as memetically aggressive as Muslims from the ME?
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