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The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

thecodist.com

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Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#71

Post by erik_seaberg »

PeterisP wrote: post #64
AtheistOfFail wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was actually a web page that would answer your stack overflow answer by running and benchmarking all of them. There was also a plugin that would allow you to directly grab code from stack overflow and put it right into your project, kinda of like a search engine for laziness (I think it was an Atom plugin)

There's stacksort, a sorting algorithm that searches StackOverflow for sorting functions and runs them until it returns the correct answer. An implementation is here https://gkoberger.github.io/stacksort/

Also https://github.com/drathier/stack-overflow-import which turns upvoted answers into modules.

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#72

Post by SCHiM »

zemo wrote: post #43
dheera wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. A lot of times it still makes sense to write your own code from the ground up. There are so many instances where a lot of stuff out there is way too overcomplicated for the task at hand and takes more time to configure and resolve dependencies than it takes to just code the part you actually need from scratch. A lot of times, if I'm looking at some random github repo out there and its dependencies aren't…

sure but you often have to fight tooth and nail for the right to invent anything yourself in a lot of modern web-based environments. The idea of actually inventing something yourself is seen as crazy and dangerous in a lot of places.

That's because there's some truth in that. Remember the time when searching for ' would spit out a detailed error message containing the database name and query that failed? Or adding to your profile page would break everything for everyone?

That was because everybody was writing their own stuff instead of relying on frameworks that handle fuzzy things like user input for you. Many webpages have gotten more secure, but no without a cost for creative programmers everywhere.

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#73

Post by walshemj »

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #15

As somebody else who started coding in the mid 80s I feel this is one of the disconnects of the interview process: interviews evaluate you on the basis of an "80s programming model" where if you needed a red black tree library, you likely had to write it on your own. It would be a lot more representative of today's work if you were asked: given these 3 github repos with packages that all purport to do X, which one wo…

Even in the 70/80's at a world leading rnd place we did not write our own fourier subroutines we brought them in from the NAG https://www.nag.co.uk/

Like wise we brought in Gino-F to plot results nicely

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#74

Post by marssaxman »

natoliniak wrote: post #12
Diederich wrote: post #9

I received my first computer in 1980, a TRS-80 color computer, when I was a pre-teen. A few years later, I received a TRS-80 Model 100 laptop, and a few years after that, in 1987 or so, an Amiga 1000, which I used through university. I agree with most of this article, but with one big difference: I still really enjoy programming, professionally and personally. (And maybe I'm over-stating the authors lack of enjoyment…

>there was the thrill of discovery, in a rather low-level sort of way Same here, but whenever I embark on a new project today I remind myself of this mantra: "Do not reinvent the wheel" Someone out there has probably already solved your problem, so why not speed up the process and use the fruit of their brain power as a tool to speed up your process? Carpenters or mechanics do not invent a new type of hammer or drill…

Because tool-making is the fun part.

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#75

Post by busterarm »

dheera wrote: post #28
tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #15

As somebody else who started coding in the mid 80s I feel this is one of the disconnects of the interview process: interviews evaluate you on the basis of an "80s programming model" where if you needed a red black tree library, you likely had to write it on your own. It would be a lot more representative of today's work if you were asked: given these 3 github repos with packages that all purport to do X, which one wo…

I disagree. A lot of times it still makes sense to write your own code from the ground up. There are so many instances where a lot of stuff out there is way too overcomplicated for the task at hand and takes more time to configure and resolve dependencies than it takes to just code the part you actually need from scratch. A lot of times, if I'm looking at some random github repo out there and its dependencies aren't…

I can't even get OpenCV to install properly on my Mac, so there's that. That or GQRX/libsdr. Yay Python. If you have, please share!

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#76

Post by golergka »

jandrese wrote: post #49
golergka wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't tell apart a O(n^2) solution from O(log n) one, you still shouldn't be doing server-side development though.

Of course when you're gluing libraries together it is hard to know what they're doing under the hood. There are a lot of libraries with catastrophically stupid design decisions hidden behind the API, and then when everything runs like shit you find yourself having to dig into the libraries until you find the problem.

I feel that you're driving "we're just gluing libraries" argument to the point of absurd. Do you think that designing database schema and queries that run over it is something that is extremely rare and high-level in modern web development?

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#77

Post by acdha »

busterarm wrote: post #75
dheera wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. A lot of times it still makes sense to write your own code from the ground up. There are so many instances where a lot of stuff out there is way too overcomplicated for the task at hand and takes more time to configure and resolve dependencies than it takes to just code the part you actually need from scratch. A lot of times, if I'm looking at some random github repo out there and its dependencies aren't…

I can't even get OpenCV to install properly on my Mac, so there's that. That or GQRX/libsdr. Yay Python. If you have, please share!

Unless you have a really, really good reason, use Homebrew (https://brew.sh/) and it's a simple "brew install opencv" or "brew install opencv3".

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#78

Post by Nokinside »

You can still find low level coding opportunities in embedded or systems programming. Low level network software, mobile networks, embedded signal processing applications etc.

What I really love in programming is the flow and focus you can attain when coding for hours with little interruption when you master all the libraries you use. You feel how everything quiets down around you, not because there is less noise, but because your concentration is so strong that they fade away. When you stop and go outside it feels like you have been on long trip in a faraway place. You look at people and they are acting just like before you left but you feel like foreigner. When you go to sleep you have weird dreams where you move in some data structure.

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hack-mode.html

edit: I don't think its fundamentally low level vs. high level problem. It's the quality of api/library problem. Compact and logical high level library that you can understand and master without continuous stream of surprises is what is needed. Verbose libraries with unnecessary "enterprise" cruft kill the hacker inside me.

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#79

Post by Qantourisc »

jandrese wrote: post #49
golergka wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't tell apart a O(n^2) solution from O(log n) one, you still shouldn't be doing server-side development though.

Of course when you're gluing libraries together it is hard to know what they're doing under the hood. There are a lot of libraries with catastrophically stupid design decisions hidden behind the API, and then when everything runs like shit you find yourself having to dig into the libraries until you find the problem.

Anecdotal evidence of "just gluing libraries": I once had users complain about a web-application being slow. As it turns out, it needed 1 second to generate 1KiB of data. They must have been using some sort of slow ORM in the back-end doing 1 DB query per FK.

Re: The Biggest Difference Between Coding Today and When I Started in the 80s

#80

Post by monksy »

jandrese wrote: post #49
golergka wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't tell apart a O(n^2) solution from O(log n) one, you still shouldn't be doing server-side development though.

Of course when you're gluing libraries together it is hard to know what they're doing under the hood. There are a lot of libraries with catastrophically stupid design decisions hidden behind the API, and then when everything runs like shit you find yourself having to dig into the libraries until you find the problem.

Details matter, quality development matters, and experience matters a LOT!
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