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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#341

Post by brilliantcode »

braythwayt wrote: post #276

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

what you do on your own time with or without company resources is yours. too many armchair lawyers on HN trying to spread FUD and scare employers.

As long as you don't compete using their code, everything is fair game.

Such bullying lawsuits would irreversibly damage the credibility of you and your organization.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#342

Post by petethepig »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #122
kutkloon7 wrote: post #22

"But rather than negotiating a deal, Alcatel fired Brown and sued him for ownership of the idea. After a seven-year-long court battle, he lost and was forced to spend three months at the company’s offices, without pay, writing out the code to implement his solution." I deeply hate the judge who made this verdict. You must be truly devoid of human feeling and common sense to explain this as a reasonable application of…

If I didn't have a family I would have considered fleeing the country. Or come into the office every day for the three months naked. After such an insane verdict I'd like to believe that Alcatel's top talent started jumping ship.

> come into the office every day for the three months naked

And get charged with sexual harassment

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#343

Post by turc1656 »

protonfish wrote: post #324
turc1656 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

Was it Joel Spolsky? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

No, but it sounds like he knows about this stuff all too well. His final scenario is essentially what happened to my father:

"We are kinda indifferent. If you piss us off, we will look for ways to make you miserable. If you leave and start a competitive company or even a half-competitive company, we will use this contract to bring you to tears. BUT, if you don’t piss us off, and serve us loyally, we’ll look the other way when your iPhone app starts making $40,000 a month."

FYI - my father's situation happened about 20 years ago in the late 90's.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#344

Post by 1_2__3 »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #334
serg_chernata wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business. I don't think I'll ever understand that attitude. If you're a founder, the business just may be the work of your life. To expect the same level of dedication and obsession from your employees is utterly obscene. If you're lucky enough to find someone who genuinely feels that way,…

Put less brusquely, though, it sounds like what most early-stage startups (fairly) expect. At that stage, working long hours is usually part of the deal, and you're probably getting big equity and a substantial chunk of their last round. It would be a little weird if you had hours of free time for personal hacking after that.

This line of thinking is I fathomable to me. You do realize that you'd probably have better chances pulling a slot machine handle for a big payout than expecting an early-employee stock package that means anything to a non unicorn.

Long hours is not the same as owning me.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#345

Post by ghurtado »

protonfish wrote: post #324
turc1656 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

Was it Joel Spolsky? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

I used to respect him, but that post is so wrong on so many counts regarding US IP law and "work for hire" stipulations that I couldn't get myself to finish reading even half of it.

"be careful before taking legal advice from the Internet." - Indeed, Joel. Indeed.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#346

Post by gubwerd »

teej wrote: post #292
Thrillington wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's morally bankrupt, but legally correct.

A judge can compel someone to work without pay? Is that not slavery?

There's an exception to the US Constitution's abolition of slavery: punishment for a crime. Fortunately, contract disputes are civil rather than criminal.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#347

Post by Insomn3ak »

cmdrfred wrote: post #325
turc1656 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

I'd counter with attempting to reclassify as non salary exempt. Most IT work isn't salary exempt and thus as I am perpetually "on call" I have to be paid for every second since I started working for you.

If you're a programmer working in CA, you're more than likely already non-exempt (regardless of how your employer tries to classify you) thanks to Labor Code Section 515.5 https://californiaemploymentlaw.foxrothschild.com/2015/10/ar...

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#348

Post by ghurtado »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #334
serg_chernata wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business. I don't think I'll ever understand that attitude. If you're a founder, the business just may be the work of your life. To expect the same level of dedication and obsession from your employees is utterly obscene. If you're lucky enough to find someone who genuinely feels that way,…

Put less brusquely, though, it sounds like what most early-stage startups (fairly) expect. At that stage, working long hours is usually part of the deal, and you're probably getting big equity and a substantial chunk of their last round. It would be a little weird if you had hours of free time for personal hacking after that.

Would it be weird if you liked to play guitar for 20 or 30 minutes in the evenings while employed by a startup?

Because that would go against "using any and all your creative energy towards the business of the company"

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#349

Post by ABCLAW »

matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

As an FYI, I've been interested in a similar approach. So far bioinformatics techniques seem to be the best fit.

You may want to take a look at libraries that provide BLAST or Clustal/MSA Analysis capabilities, then tinker a bit. From my experience, wiring those tools to a separate visualization suite provides the best results.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#350

Post by make3 »

braythwayt wrote: post #276

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

what kind of fucking psycho answers something like that. It always amazes me the horror stories I hear on this site
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