Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand • Hacker News Board

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#41

Post by wang_li » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:08 PM UTC

UnfalseDesign wrote: post #14

danjoc wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is doing the digital version: https://www.google.com/search?q=python+for+kids+pdf First result. Google docs. Free book. Edit: Not sure if modded down for pointing out Google is pirating the book in nearly the same way as Amazon (HN loves Google, it can do no wrong) or if it's because I linked to Google's pirate link (Oh no! You're bankrupting the author, dirty commenter!).

The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link. It is a link to a pirated file that just happens to be hosted on Google Docs. The difference here is that Amazon is actually printing the pirated book. Google is just hosting a file that happens to be made publicly view…

> The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link.

Google has just exploited a loophole in the law that allows them to provide all the technical expertise and infrastructure to profit from piracy, while remaining legally non-liable.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#42

Post by komali2 » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:09 PM UTC

danjoc wrote: post #10

HoppedUpMenace wrote: post #7

Its ridiculous the amount of energy and effort you have to waste in order to find a product that you don't suspect as being counterfeit on Amazon these days. The other day, I wanted a super bright flashlight that ran on AAA batteries and was of decent quality and price. I had to pour over the millions of listed flashlights, most looking physically identical, with the exception of the brand name printed on the flashli…

All those rebrands are coming from alibaba. Just go to ali express and buy direct if you want one. The "entrepreneurs" using jungle scout are flooding amazon with rebranded alibaba stuff.

This is go-to strategy for /r/entrepreneur's crowd. If I remember correctly, Tim Ferris even recommends it in "4 Hour Workweek."

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#43

Post by komali2 » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:10 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #40

There's no way to report a counterfeit on Amazon unless you're claiming a violation of your own IP rights. I've complained about fake solid state relays. There are lots of fake "Fotek" solid state relays. UL has noticed.[1] The fakes are usually marked with much higher amp ratings than they can handle safely. Look at this "100 amp" fake "Fotek" relay on Amazon.[2] Fotek doesn't even make a 100 amp relay in that packa…

Yea, this annoyed me when I was buying a camera. Blatantly fake products that even had things in the description like "navigate to www (dot) spamhackwebsite (dot) com to purhcase![sp]" but I had to send a general support ticket to report.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#44

Post by devnull42 » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:11 PM UTC

lsaferite wrote: post #37

binarymax wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it passes through eBay's hands, then I would.

Ok, then you are saying the shipper should verify every product they ship? I mean, Fulfilled by Amazon is providing a storefront and fulfillment services for things people ship to them. If you are making the argument they should verify every item they ship then that should extend to all fulfillment providers, no? Don't get me wrong, I think FBA and 3rd party sellers are a huge mistake for Amazon as a whole. I just di…

Amazon is directly selling these not acting as a third party. They are the counterfeiters in this case totally different than buying something from someone on ebay and ebay facilitating the deal.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#45

Post by benmorris » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:15 PM UTC

Amazon is turning into a mine field for legitimate sellers. I have a customer I work closely with to integrate their customer products into Amazon. They have a catalog of 3,000 stock parking signs listed on Amazon. We took considerable time to buy custom SKUs and get them listed. We discovered in the last month two separate Chinese sellers utilized the Amazon buy box feature and listed on our product page for less money than our items. This is impossible to do since they don't make the same signs at the same specs and design. In fact how could they have my customer's artwork?

We soon discovered these people were actually hijacking our high resolution main image and actually using that to make their own signs. Amazon is strict about watermarking so we went very conservative on the markings on the files. When they received an order they printed out the high res file of ours and stuck it to a parking blank. The reviews they were getting it was obvious they weren't selling good quality, but people were confusing them with US! Almost worse than any of it Amazon puts so much power into other sellers using the buy box feature that if you searched for my customer the Chinese sellers would often default to the preferred seller.

In the end Amazon has banned the two sellers, but moving forward it is difficult to police 3,000 listings so we have not been expanding what we are doing on there.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#46

Post by ori_b » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:16 PM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #41

UnfalseDesign wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link. It is a link to a pirated file that just happens to be hosted on Google Docs. The difference here is that Amazon is actually printing the pirated book. Google is just hosting a file that happens to be made publicly view…

> The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link. Google has just exploited a loophole in the law that allows them to provide all the technical expertise and infrastructure to profit from piracy, while remaining legally non-liable.

It's a very good loophole. The alternative would be making any site hosting user content legally liable, which would kill user uploads and content.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#47

Post by danjoc » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

UnfalseDesign wrote: post #14

danjoc wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is doing the digital version: https://www.google.com/search?q=python+for+kids+pdf First result. Google docs. Free book. Edit: Not sure if modded down for pointing out Google is pirating the book in nearly the same way as Amazon (HN loves Google, it can do no wrong) or if it's because I linked to Google's pirate link (Oh no! You're bankrupting the author, dirty commenter!).

The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link. It is a link to a pirated file that just happens to be hosted on Google Docs. The difference here is that Amazon is actually printing the pirated book. Google is just hosting a file that happens to be made publicly view…

>The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book.

Neither is Amazon as I understand it.

>It is being hosted on Google Docs.

Amazon is just printing the book.

>This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public.

This is exactly what's happening on Amazon. Someone uploaded the pirated file, as their own. Amazon is simply printing the book, and helping you find it via a search interface. I'm still failing to see a distinction here between what Google and Amazon are doing, beyond the fact that Google's approach is digital, and therefore zero cost.

Both Google and Amazon benefit from the piracy. Amazon directly through sale of product, Google directly through search ad revenue. Both Google and Amazon provide the platform for the piracy. Both Google and Amazon provide search discovery for the pirated product.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#48

Post by spatulon » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

HoppedUpMenace wrote: post #7

Its ridiculous the amount of energy and effort you have to waste in order to find a product that you don't suspect as being counterfeit on Amazon these days. The other day, I wanted a super bright flashlight that ran on AAA batteries and was of decent quality and price. I had to pour over the millions of listed flashlights, most looking physically identical, with the exception of the brand name printed on the flashli…

Out of interest, what torch did you end up buying?

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#49

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:23 PM UTC

danjoc wrote: post #47

UnfalseDesign wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. It is being hosted on Google Docs. This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. It isn't Google's pirate link. It is a link to a pirated file that just happens to be hosted on Google Docs. The difference here is that Amazon is actually printing the pirated book. Google is just hosting a file that happens to be made publicly view…

>The difference is that Google isn't pirating the book. Neither is Amazon as I understand it. >It is being hosted on Google Docs. Amazon is just printing the book. >This is no different than if someone put the PDF on Dropbox and made it public. This is exactly what's happening on Amazon. Someone uploaded the pirated file, as their own. Amazon is simply printing the book, and helping you find it via a search interface…

Both absolutely would be copyright violations ("pirating the book"), but what Google is doing (until it recieves a proper takedown notice, and even after that assuming it properly complies) is within the DMCA safe harbor. Amazon's action has no comparable safe harbor, because digital hosting of user-submitted content is protected, but hardcopy printing and distribution is not.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#50

Post by stagbeetle » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 8:23 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #42

danjoc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those rebrands are coming from alibaba. Just go to ali express and buy direct if you want one. The "entrepreneurs" using jungle scout are flooding amazon with rebranded alibaba stuff.

This is go-to strategy for /r/entrepreneur's crowd. If I remember correctly, Tim Ferris even recommends it in "4 Hour Workweek."

It's the go to of the (small-business) entrepreneurs all over the web (TheFastlane, /r/entrepreneur, etc.).

I'm fairly certain it started around 4 years ago with Matt Clark's "Amazon Selling Machine." A friend who paid the $1000 let me watch the course and it was a pretty simple (and old) tactic.

Buy wholesale and sell at markup. Except this time you would have it under your own "private label" (i.e a Chinese factory would slap your logo on a generic and sell it to you).

Apparently he made a killing doing the same thing with silicone spatulas.