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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#291

Post by mahyarm »

shawnee_ wrote: post #179
matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

You can hire a lawyer and pay a flat fee for labor if you want to avoid the percentage comission model. There are also discount brokers out there that take less. That can work if your more DIY about buying and selling houses.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#292

Post by teej »

Thrillington wrote: post #37
kutkloon7 wrote: post #22

"But rather than negotiating a deal, Alcatel fired Brown and sued him for ownership of the idea. After a seven-year-long court battle, he lost and was forced to spend three months at the company’s offices, without pay, writing out the code to implement his solution." I deeply hate the judge who made this verdict. You must be truly devoid of human feeling and common sense to explain this as a reasonable application of…

It's morally bankrupt, but legally correct.

A judge can compel someone to work without pay? Is that not slavery?

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#293

Post by mahyarm »

lettergram wrote: post #290
shawnee_ wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

I just bought a house, and I will say, I'm glad I had a realtor guiding us. Because I am the buyer I had to pay her nothing, she just gets her 3% - 6% on the sale, and honestly I have no idea what that number is. The seller pays. That being said when I sell, I definitely do not plan on using a realtor. As you said, it's super easy to sell online and I agree. I even found the house I bought without the realtor, we lit…

That 3% that the seller 'pays' for is really yourself paying for it. You could probably negotiate that fee away if you didnt have a realtor on your side for example

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#294

Post by Orangeair »

greggman wrote: post #288
Orangeair wrote: post #164

Wow, that's really nice. At Google, they basically told us, "There's the standard IP rule where you own anything that you work on in your own time that doesn't compete with our business... Of course we pretty much do everything, so good luck finding something that we can't claim."

When I was at google they said "we have a standard contract we'll most of the time be happy to sign that says we claim no interest in your outside project. Submit your project here and we'll get back to you ASAP". They often put out memos about the types of things that were not okay and later when they were ok. For example then they were exploring games in google plus back during the Farmville crazy they said "Sorry…

Hmm, the impression I got from the training video I watched was that it would be unlikely for Google to approve your outside project most of the time. But maybe it was just the way the specific presenter worded it.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#295

Post by golergka »

shawnee_ wrote: post #179
matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

> and anybody that tells you that you can't negotiate to create your own contract for a deal should be prosecuted for coercion

As long as you can decide not to sign it, it's a negotiation. Pretty shitty and one-sided negotiation, but still negotiation.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#296

Post by dnautics »

braythwayt wrote: post #276

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

It wasn't explicitly stated, but the founder did not agree to modify the IP clause? I've had the experience of checking an IP clause and insisting that the founder modify it and coming to an agreement.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#297

Post by lsaferite »

nso wrote: post #256
lsaferite wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love those protections personally, but I have no such luck.

It's minimum requirement for a hire contract in Norway. 3 months mutual notification, and only in a few cases can you be fired on spot without compensation (theft and such). You can contractually increase the notification time from the baseline, but not decrease. Makes for happy and productive workers, and also benefits companies who don't have to worry about loosing their best worker without notice.

I think I read Norway just moved into #1 happiest country in the world...

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#298

Post by AlexCoventry »

kutkloon7 wrote: post #22

"But rather than negotiating a deal, Alcatel fired Brown and sued him for ownership of the idea. After a seven-year-long court battle, he lost and was forced to spend three months at the company’s offices, without pay, writing out the code to implement his solution." I deeply hate the judge who made this verdict. You must be truly devoid of human feeling and common sense to explain this as a reasonable application of…

I can't find the decision, but I doubt he was forced to by the judge. It seems more likely that he negotiated this for a discount on the stupendous court costs.

For instance, here's a 2002 report on the loss which doesn't mention the requirement.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/08/12/alcatel_owns_us_emp...

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#299

Post by lsaferite »

fs111 wrote: post #287
usefulcat wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the usernames; unless Isaferite is the same person as VLM, Isaferite didn't make the comments you're quoting.

true, but isaferite was agreeing with OP, so I stick to my words.

Nope. Never said anything about agreeing with that comment. I was strictly commenting on the "I am pretty happy with my employment. Paid vacation, paid sick days, reasonable hours and all that good stuff."

So, please don't put words in my mouth.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#300

Post by lettergram »

mahyarm wrote: post #293
lettergram wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a house, and I will say, I'm glad I had a realtor guiding us. Because I am the buyer I had to pay her nothing, she just gets her 3% - 6% on the sale, and honestly I have no idea what that number is. The seller pays. That being said when I sell, I definitely do not plan on using a realtor. As you said, it's super easy to sell online and I agree. I even found the house I bought without the realtor, we lit…

That 3% that the seller 'pays' for is really yourself paying for it. You could probably negotiate that fee away if you didnt have a realtor on your side for example

Probably, but I did play super hard ball in negotiations with the builder. Without the realtor as the intermediary, I think we would have paid more.

Basically, the realtor provided a barrier between the builder and my wife who super loved the property. The realtor also had a relationship with the builder, so when I asked the builder to do X, I got a response super quick at 11:30 at night.

Don't underestimate the value of having connections. FYI my house appraised at like 10% higher than I purchased it, so we did get a deal.

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