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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#211

Post by CM30 »

I have to be honest, I'm surprised this is seemingly such a rare thing in the tech industry. I mean, in the various (admittedly small) companies I worked for as a web developer, I never had anyone worry about what I was doing outside of work hours. Heck in most cases they explicitly said I could do what I wanted outside of work and that if it made money... well good for me I guess.

But hey, they were small companies. Usually with a total staff count until 20. Guess it must be totally different at a multi national corporation with an actual legal team on call and what not.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#212

Post by bblough »

camoby wrote: post #18

I always try to negotiate this. Since I always bring value, effort and ideas from personal time and resources in to the company, for free. If they don't want to do that, then write down a big list of every idea and project you've been working on to date, including any domains you own and projects within them, and make sure they can't touch any of the IP you've already created. Also: Be friendly about it.

I rejected an offer from a company that had a similar policy/procedure. Their contract stated that they own pretty much anything you do that's related to their business (which was huge and varied). But you were allowed to list any existing IP over which they had no claims.

That would have been fine and dandy, and probably even acceptable to me. But based on the wording of the contract, the IP clause still applied even after terminating your employment with the company. Which meant that while they might not be able to claim rights to my existing IP, ownership of any future IP could be called into question.

So, while I think your approach is good, there can still be issues with it.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#213

Post by arjie »

hinkley wrote: post #159
soverance wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real. I am an indie game dev who recently released his first big game on Steam. Just a week or two ago I had a prospective company tell me that, in order to hire me, I would need to sell them the entirety of my personally-developed IP and dissolve my interest in my own company. Needless to say, I decided against that job.

You should write back to the developer contact on that interview and explain exactly why you're declining. They may assume you had other reasons for not moving forward. Bad actors have a habit of making their mistakes look like something else.

It's their company. It's their problem. I wouldn't bother.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#214

Post by dang »

nilved wrote: post #34

So you've never met Julie Ann Horvath?

You've been posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please stop doing this.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13921512 and marked it off-topic.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#215

Post by phd514 »

kutkloon7 wrote: post #113

I agree, and I think that people should be able to make the distinction between legally correct and morally correct. (It's very easy to make a Godwin here) Is it that uncommon to factor in the situation? I've heard of judges in the Netherlands who find people guilty, but give them just a small fine. Likewise, they might rule that technically , someone is guilty, but that this application of the law is not in the spir…

She was jailed for registering as a voter and voting in several elections despite not being a US citizen. Your characterization of it as "crossing a wrong box on her voting form" downplays the severity of what she did.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#216

Post by danielweber »

paulddraper wrote: post #210
paulcole wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've been trying for a long time to alter the common perception that Realtors add value; they don't. I don't know anything about the law so I hire a lawyer I trust. I don't know anything about buying a house so I hire a realtor I trust.

That's fair. You can certainly make some big mistakes when buying/selling a house. E.g. neglect to have it inspected by due diligence deadline. I used a realtor (with a discounted fee) for my first house. Now I'm buying the second by owner, because I know how the circus operates.

If you get a lawyer for your house transactions, you will pay a flat fee of less than $1000 and still get the advice to always have it inspected.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#217

Post by chime »

paulcole wrote: post #199
shawnee_ wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

>I've been trying for a long time to alter the common perception that Realtors add value; they don't. I don't know anything about the law so I hire a lawyer I trust. I don't know anything about buying a house so I hire a realtor I trust.

> I don't know anything about buying a house so I hire a realtor I trust.

You can hire a lawyer for exactly the same purpose. You will still need to hire inspectors, title companies regardless.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#218

Post by zdragnar »

matthewmcg wrote: post #137

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

How much of your work can be rightly patented?

I imagine these sorts of agreements prevent employees from developing something in the due course of their work, patenting it, then charging the company for the use of the work they were already paid for via salary. I.e., it's a simple protection against extortion.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#219

Post by randomdata »

reneherse wrote: post #208
paulcole wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've been trying for a long time to alter the common perception that Realtors add value; they don't. I don't know anything about the law so I hire a lawyer I trust. I don't know anything about buying a house so I hire a realtor I trust.

The type and amount of training required for those two fields isn't even remotely similar.

Does that matter? You're not hiring them because there is a high bar of training.

Heck, programming is literally done by schoolchildren for entertainment, myself included, yet people are quite happy to hire us because they understand the value of delegation.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#220

Post by usefulcat »

fs111 wrote: post #192
lsaferite wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have to get new clients, that is always a risk. Proper structuring of payment schedules and IP transfer helps with invoice payment. Also, having long-term relationships with clients also helps there. I would hope you carry some sort of insurance in the case of life taking a sudden left-turn, but perhaps you don't. Ideally you financially plan enough to cover something like that. I've been a contractor as sev…

> I currently work as an employee and also like the benefits it provides and the people I work with. So you broadly claim that "employment is dead" using big words like "feudal system" and how you can make so much more money contracting etc. etc. and then it turns out you are an employee after all? Seriously?

Check the usernames; unless Isaferite is the same person as VLM, Isaferite didn't make the comments you're quoting.
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