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David Rockefeller has died

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Re: David Rockefeller has died

#91

Post by smileysteve »

kelvin0 wrote: post #46
TeMPOraL wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending some time around people from various anti-science/government/vaccination circles I realized that if the New World Order is what they describe it is, then I'd love to join it. At least those NWO conspirators seem to have a clue.

This reminds me the vilains in the older (60s-70s) Bond movies. I always found them to be visionaries and were simply a step removed from great leaders (if not for their penchant for killing remorselessly). Not trying to compare David R. to such monsters, but I can see how some people can cast him as such, even with the best intentions on his part (I can only assume). Regularly most of us step on others peoples toes…

Not dissimilarly from Kingpin in Daredevil...

The line between good and evil is not defined by intentions.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#92

Post by dsacco »

johansch wrote: post #32
teslabox wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Rockefeller upheld the family’s philanthropic tradition, giving away more than $900 million during his lifetime. In 1940, he joined the board of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, established in 1901 by his grandfather, and a decade later succeeded his father as board chairman, serving for 25 years. Rich people don't give money away no-strings-attached, they channel it for their purpo…

> Rockefeller upheld the family’s philanthropic tradition, giving away more than $900 million during his lifetime. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/11/the-roc... "That young man was John Davison Rockefeller in 1855, who in 25 years would become the wealthiest man of his time, and arguably the wealthiest in history, reigning over a monopoly that refined as much as 90 percent of America’s oil. His flag…

They're talking about net worth. You're talking about income.

Kind of silly either way though - why don't you just come out and say that you think he should have donated more?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#93

Post by reckoner2 »

teslabox wrote: post #26
kolanos wrote: post #4

"Some even believe we [Rockefeller family] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- One World, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 4…

From the article: > Rockefeller upheld the family’s philanthropic tradition, giving away more than $900 million during his lifetime. In 1940, he joined the board of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, established in 1901 by his grandfather, and a decade later succeeded his father as board chairman, serving for 25 years. Rich people don't give money away no-strings-attached, they channel it for their purpo…

I finished "Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller" a few nights ago. It's a mammoth of a book and I believe the undisputed most accurate and comprehensive look at his life.

I think that what you've written here is incredibly misleading when talking about John D. Rockefeller's philanthropy in particular. It is wrong to imply the Rockefeller's secretly controlled strings in order to make profits from their donations. Time and time again he gave away vast sums of money and did everything in his power to separate himself completely from the donation. His largest fear about donating was that the public would label his donation as tainted money. He wanted no influence over, and never visited with most of the receivers of his donations. His only concern was that institutions should not be wholly dependent on his philanthropy, and work to raise money from other sources as well.

The Rockefeller institute for Medical Research is one of the most successful examples of philanthropy ever. And Rockefeller may only be eclipsed by Bill Gates as the greatest philanthropist ever.

You can absolutely (and should) criticize his business practices, but Rockefeller literally created the model of what a successful philanthropist should do.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#94

Post by rfrank »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #47
prolly_a_moron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Bilderberg Group does exist, has economically powerful members and acts in private. A bunch of wealthy and influential people assemble to discuss policy and other strategy. I'm not sure why this is unexpected, bad, or why it should be frowned upon or disallowed.

Because when the super-wealthy collaborate, it's usually on stuff that benefits them, to the expense of everyone else, e.g. software patents, copyright extensions, and trade agreements with all sorts of fun stuff hidden inside: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership_inte...

When money is equivalent to speech, it's very easy to shout people down.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#95

Post by battlebot »

Exofunctor wrote: post #33

I am, by most metrics, an ardent globalist; I advocate absolute free trade and absolute free movement. However, it's not very hard to recognize that many people's definition of globalism effectively includes such things as forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

What you describe is nice, but free movement has to be bi-directional, not just into the west. Thus far, the only side that is living up to those ideals are western nations, to their obvious and ongoing harm.

Also, are you aware that globalism eliminates the individual franchise? In other words, there is a very large downside to having an unelected body ruling the world, isn't there? In other words, the end of democracy as we know it.

I was once a libertarian and bought into the typical libertarian political positions. Unfortunately, based on observation, I have to revert to the idea that the only way to preserve the unique (and fading) way of life we have in the US is to righteously enforce our political borders and bolster internal democratic representation as opposed to remove that control to a further higher entity.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#96

Post by hwillis »

Exofunctor wrote: post #33

I am, by most metrics, an ardent globalist; I advocate absolute free trade and absolute free movement. However, it's not very hard to recognize that many people's definition of globalism effectively includes such things as forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

>forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

We have had all of those things for over a century in the US. You don't even have to be a citizen to be able to immigrate to any state in the union from any other state. "Cultural erasure" is even more nonsensical than "cultural appropriation". Overburdening of welfare states has been fine for the entire history of the US. These things made the US the most powerful nation in the world.

The EU is less than half the size of the US. The problems you are describing are ridiculous and irrelevant.

edit: not to mention, the EU takes in even fewer legal immigrants than the US does, per capita. "Cultural erasure" doesn't mean tearing down maypoles and shit, it just means a kebab place opens up down the street. Who could possibly give a shit about that? NOBODY. except racists, obviously.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#97

Post by rayiner »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #66
rayiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Encouraging international cooperation isn't consolidating power. It's learning to live together on the same planet. Globalization is a big tent with lots of different people in it with different motivations and priorities. The effect is mixed. It undoubtedly has accelerated growth and encouraged stability in the developing world. At the same time, it normalizes non-Western social/economic models and tends to underm…

> tends to undermine welfare states. Not if we realize we share this planet and ought to be collectively interested in its health.

The modern European welfare state - until robots take over - is all about carving out a local optimum in a sea of scarcity. How do you propose to have cradle-to-grave welfare within a system that encourages labor in developed countries to bitterly compete with desparate people in developing countries?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#98

Post by kbenson »

rosser wrote: post #78
intended wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When Flexner researched his report, many American medical schools were "proprietary", namely small trade schools owned by one or more doctors, unaffiliated with a college or university, and run to make a profit. A degree was typically awarded after only two years of study. Laboratory work and dissection were not necessarily required. Many of the instructors were local doctors teaching part-time, whose own training l…

> I mean, that's why we trust doctors, because the bar is that high. Two thoughts: 1. The old joke, "What do you call the person who graduated from medical school at the bottom of their class?" "Doctor." 2. The ordeal of residency isn't about setting the bar "high", nearly so much as it's about, "well, I went through this shit, so you have to, too". (Source: I have several doctor friends. All of them think it's bulls…

1. What do you call the the person who graduated from SEAL training at the bottom of their class? A SEAL. I get the joke, but part of the point is that top and bottom of the class are only relevant for those who actually graduate, and who is capable of graduating can be entirely different based on the goals of the institution. From "everyone can, with work" as in High School, to "only those who are good enough" as (hopefully) in medical school.

2. Humanity, where we've institutionalized pettiness, and not just once, but throughout history. :/

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#99

Post by unityByFreedom »

notsofastmister wrote: post #87
unityByFreedom wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake news. Nowhere there does he advocate genocide. In 1973, most people probably weren't aware of the humanitarian crises that happened in China since the Communists took over. That's right when Nixon visited and was re-establishing friendly relations there. Most people were unaware of the happenings inside China. They were hoping to establish better ties in order to promote cultural exchange. Thus, praising Mao at…

Mao Ze Dong was working with the Yale-China association in the 1920s. So China wasn't as closed as it may seem. And a banker working with all the dictators in the world (and Kissinger!) isn't "most people". [0] Can you find any other example of someone praising China at the same time? Mass killings had already been a part of life in China since 1911. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale-China_Association [1] ht…

More fake news.

China was closed from roughly 1950 - 1972. In 1920 they'd just overthrown the last dynasty and were trying to establish a democracy, so, it makes sense they'd be in contact with the US at that time. Unfortunately there were some assassinations and their multi-party system never got off the ground.

There are probably tons of optimistic articles about US-Chinese relationships in the mid-1970s, as well as critical ones.

As it turns out, trade helped boost the economies of both Taiwan and China, and people don't call them the third world anymore. Is it perfect? No. But we still talk to them and do trade.

Rockefeller never advocated genocide. Doing business with or speaking positively of a certain leader doesn't mean you approve of everything they do, nor does speaking negatively mean you disagree with everything they do. What you said above is fake news.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#100

Post by prodikl »

selimthegrim wrote: post #49
charia wrote: post #2

Obligatory mention of Titan, in mine and many other people's opinion, the best and most comprehensive biography of the original John D. Rockefeller. (The grandfather of the David Rockefeller who passed away today.) An extremely well put together balanced analysis of John D. Rockefeller, Standard Oil and general history of the Gilded Age. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16121.Titan

I think the History Channel had a good show about the lives of Rockefeller, Carnegie, et al. and how they intersected

highly recommended. its nice to know the history behind some of the biggest names you hear everyday
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