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David Rockefeller has died

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Re: David Rockefeller has died

#61

Post by unityByFreedom »

faceyspacey wrote: post #41
unityByFreedom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to say that people who encourage international trade caused the situation in the middle east? Or trying to pin that on one political party? I don't think that's accurate or fair.

Well that's not what I'm trying to say all. I'm saying specifically the war on Iraq and Afghanistan was manufactured by the powers that be. They either made the attack themselves on the twin towers, knew about it, or capitalized on it nevertheless as soon as they were fortunate enough for such thing to happen. They are willing to make sacrifices that the rest of the world might not agree with in order to create how T…

And what is your solution to this dilemma? As soon as you become leader, you are the establishment. Trump is the establishment now, and he's certainly elite.

There have always been leaders in society. We have parents, bosses, and presidents. It's just the way things are. You can still work to change your own situation.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#62

Post by chinathrow »

oh_sigh wrote: post #43
Exofunctor wrote: post #33

I am, by most metrics, an ardent globalist; I advocate absolute free trade and absolute free movement. However, it's not very hard to recognize that many people's definition of globalism effectively includes such things as forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

If 100M people from Africa/ME showed up in Europe, you think this would be a good thing for the world?

Of course it is. We have plenty of space here in Europe.

Also, why should borders really matter? Protectionism?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#63

Post by kolbe »

jlebrech wrote: post #29
kolbe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake news. I remembered it as real from last year.

Fake news has no trouble convincing people a rich guy is evil.

They prey on prejudices. In my case, all I remember is seeing it on reddit a long time ago. I don't think I even read the article, but I remembered the headline. Then, when I saw he died, I just googled it real quick, picked out the closest link, and reposted AQAP.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#64

Post by AnimalMuppet »

bostonpete wrote: post #55
markwaldron wrote: post #10

"Their sister, Abby Rockefeller Mauze, known as “Babs,” died in 1976." All the brothers have their contributions listed, but she doesn't? According to Wikipedia, Abby Rockefeller Mauze preferred to stay out of the spotlight, but was still a benefactor of the MOMA, YWCA, NY Hospital, NY Zoological Society, and the Asia Society.

> All the brothers have their contributions listed, but she doesn't? Maybe related to this detail (also from Wikipedia)...? "Unlike her famous brothers, she always remained out of the public eye"

That doesn't mean that she didn't do anything. It doesn't even mean she didn't do anything worthy of note.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#65

Post by elastic_church »

iliketosleep wrote: post #18
kolanos wrote: post #4

"Some even believe we [Rockefeller family] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- One World, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 4…

What's frightening is that he was actually proud of it - he really believed in it. I wonder how many other powerful families are working towards the "more integrated global political and economic structure", consolidating the power of the global elite. Good luck to everybody else... Edit to clarify: in an ideal world what he stands for is right. but we're not in an idea world. where there's power there's often corrup…

Oh no deeply liquid markets that span borders, the horror

Lets bring back a Europe with 27 different bond and stock markets in 27 different volatile currencies

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#66

Post by unityByFreedom »

rayiner wrote: post #59
unityByFreedom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging international cooperation isn't consolidating power. It's learning to live together on the same planet.

> Encouraging international cooperation isn't consolidating power. It's learning to live together on the same planet. Globalization is a big tent with lots of different people in it with different motivations and priorities. The effect is mixed. It undoubtedly has accelerated growth and encouraged stability in the developing world. At the same time, it normalizes non-Western social/economic models and tends to underm…

> tends to undermine welfare states.

Not if we realize we share this planet and ought to be collectively interested in its health.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#67

Post by liber8 »

CriticalSection wrote: post #53

> The Osteopathic profession was the only group that was organized enough to survive the Medical Guild's purge of non-Rockefeller-approved approaches to medicine. What? The Medical Guild purged (almost) all of the quacks and snake oil salesman out of medicine, and aimed American medicine to be directed by the scientific method and biology. This was a good thing. You're right, most of the quacks, snake handlers, anti-…

It's not that osteopaths were so well organized. It's that John D. was a devoted Osteopath for most of his life.

If you haven't read Titan, it's a fascinating bio.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#68

Post by kbenson »

nojvek wrote: post #51
intended wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When Flexner researched his report, many American medical schools were "proprietary", namely small trade schools owned by one or more doctors, unaffiliated with a college or university, and run to make a profit. A degree was typically awarded after only two years of study. Laboratory work and dissection were not necessarily required. Many of the instructors were local doctors teaching part-time, whose own training l…

Is the bar really high though? I find doctors in US for common procedures use outdated methods and charge astronomical fees. My experience of going to Australian hospitals was 10x better. In US it feels like doctors want to get as much money as they can from you while proving the lowest level of service possible. A very capitalist view to human life.

You might be interested in a Freakonomics episode[1] that covers this to some degree. There's a wide range in care based on many factors, but unless you have quite a bit of experience in the healthcare industry in both countries, for similar ailments, I'm not sure what you experienced falls outside the normal variation for the field.

The TL;DL is that the medical field changes quite a bit in the years since Docters graduate, and depending on the types of work they are doing, it seems to be fairly easy for them to get behind with the latest consensus unless they make a concerted effort. To that effect, relatively new doctors often have better patient health outcomes than doctors that have been out of school for longer. This is, to some degree, obvious after stated, as any field that sees rapid change will have some percentage of practitioners that are out of date.

1: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/bad-medicine-part-3-death-di...

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#69

Post by sml0820 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #49
charia wrote: post #2

Obligatory mention of Titan, in mine and many other people's opinion, the best and most comprehensive biography of the original John D. Rockefeller. (The grandfather of the David Rockefeller who passed away today.) An extremely well put together balanced analysis of John D. Rockefeller, Standard Oil and general history of the Gilded Age. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16121.Titan

I think the History Channel had a good show about the lives of Rockefeller, Carnegie, et al. and how they intersected

Yes, "The Men Who Built America". Great show.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#70

Post by valarauca1 »

teslabox wrote: post #26
kolanos wrote: post #4

"Some even believe we [Rockefeller family] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- One World, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 4…

From the article: > Rockefeller upheld the family’s philanthropic tradition, giving away more than $900 million during his lifetime. In 1940, he joined the board of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, established in 1901 by his grandfather, and a decade later succeeded his father as board chairman, serving for 25 years. Rich people don't give money away no-strings-attached, they channel it for their purpo…

     thereby making sure that there's always been a shortage
     of doctors [2] 
     [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report
I'm sorry but I prefer the people operating one me are part of a well regulated profession guided by scientific research.

     The Osteopathic profession was the only group that was organized 
     enough to survive the Medical Guild's purge of non-Rockefeller-approved 
     approaches to medicine.
Yeah because Blood Letting, Leaches, Heroin, Electro-Shock, and Drinking Mercury were _so good_ for your health. Turn of the last century Osteopathy is the stuff of Nightmares.

     Today D.O.s are more likely to take up Primary Care, where doctors
     take time to get to know their patients and figure out what's
     actually causing their complaints
Modern D.O.'s aren't _exactly_ descended from Osteopathic of the 1870-1900's. Really in philosophy only. The only real relation is that the "Philosphy" of Osteopathy is the body will try to heal itself, and medicine should compliment this... Not be the only process by-which the body can.

Modern D.O.'s following the training and principles laid out in the Flexner Report. Their decisions are still based on research.

There are _non-approved_ Osteopathic """Doctors""", but we commonly refer to them as faith healers.

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